Hi, I'm Divya. Hi, I'm Kahran. And this is... Thinking. I'm thinking.
Welcome to this episode of Thinking on Thinking. Today we talked to Aditi Dimhri from Cranberry about her switch from being in economics and policy to becoming a startup founder, how she got into healthcare, what kept her into it and we discussed a lot about how our identity affects the way we make decisions. Hi, so maybe Aditi, do you want to tell us a little bit about like, you know, what you do currently and maybe tiny bit about how you got to be where you are today. I'm going to tell you a very long story.
So currently I'm building Cranberry, which is a women's health company where we really have the vision of, you know, empowering women with informed choice about their health so they can lead a healthy life today and also have, you know, better health outcomes throughout their life. So we're building Berry, which is a AI companion. We are super excited about building it and already live with some women and hoping to grow more. So I mean, my journey here has been like barely meandering, but a lot of fun. I don't come from a health background, but I've been working more in public health and on like women's health topics in almost six, seven years.
Now, I think when I was in undergrad and that time I did an internship and basically based on that I was like, oh, I want to do something that I make impact at a large scale. So I think that was my aha moment at like 20. And I, I that time I thought the way to do it is through governance and policy. And so basically I went and studied economics and like I've been throughout working with governments and you know, like the World Bank doing policy research data, behavior change, all really fun things. A lot of very like I find challenging and interesting problems like maternal anemia to, you know, how to measure impact of COVID or in Mozambique and but I think like I realized because I worked in a startup one that I wanted to do things more in an interdisciplinary and iterative way.
I thought a lot of the problems I was working on, they could not be solved by economists like me alone for sure. That's interesting. Like, wait, what kind of problems do you feel like can be solved by economists alone? I would say things about the fiscal policy, which would be the interest rate pension policies. So a part of my PhD was also on measuring inequality and poverty.
And those things I would think is like really economist domain and they have the tools and they're trained to do that. But what happens with policy, at least what I took away was that it was again quite dominated by economists like me, which is a good privileged position to have. But like say I was working in health policy and there I felt it needed much more interdisciplinary things in the sense that we actually needed the best people of health, the best people of tech, the best people of behavior change of design to come together and solve these really hard problems. So one, I think insight was that and the other insight was often things were done in a very long time frame that you decide something. You do it for a year, whereas I had seen in the startup world that things were done much more iteratively, which is again the kind of problem solving method I think is needed for the kind of problems we're trying to solve there.
So based on those things, then I think around four years ago, I was like, oh, I want to transition out of academics and do something urgently about women's health now. So then I started building something called high G1, which was more in preventive health broadly. And then I met for the 40 and we started building cranberry. Okay, so I have like so many different questions and so many different things. As you were speaking, I was thinking about this one thing. Behavioral economics is like, so I'm assuming you're not a behavioral economist. No, I'm not a behavioral economist. Oh, okay.
I was wondering, like, how does somebody who has studied more, let's say, traditional, like economics, how do you see sort of because like principles of behavioral economics, a lot of them seem very resonant with like principles of design, especially game design, because a lot of it is about like, you know, behavior and motivation manipulation for the lack of a better term. Like, how do you see it because I think the economics is on a very large scale level, right? Like you're thinking of hundreds of people and behavior is much more like individual in nature. Like how do you sort of think about those things? Interesting. So, okay, so I think economics also, there are macroeconomics and micro macroeconomics is as you're saying like studying systems at the aggregate. So totally like, I would say like fiscal policy, monetary policy, everything, right? So I am a microeconomist. There you study individual behavior, individual behavior, maybe like firm behavior, like at that level. But what let's say neoclassical or mainstream economics would do right now is this what's called the representative agent, which is much spoken about and hated.
And in some way that let's say I am the representative agent, and I have certain preferences and beliefs and certain constraints and neoclassical economics or views that I have like complete information and things like that. And then basically I make decisions, right? So that is like the individual decision making in neoclassical economics. And then behavioral economics came in, of course, in fire from psychology and neuroscience, saying that, hey, like people don't have complete information. They just don't act in this rational way quote unquote, rational being this economics way of neoclassical economics, we are defining it. So like the kind of economics I was, let's say researching in, we were also already looking at deviations from this classical economics, rational behavior, but I would say almost 50% of economics is about individual behavior. Oh, okay. So then how is micro economics different from behavioral economics?
Yeah, so exactly. So neoclassical micro economics, you said, I as an individual, I know everything. And then basically on that I optimize and I make sure that so it assumes informed consent on all decisions. Yeah, it assumes a lot of things in the sense. So if I am deciding right now to buy, let's say pizza over rice, micro economics will assume that my beliefs are totally updated. I know all the prices of everything. I know all the choice. I know my restrictions of my budget and everything. And then I'm making this choice. Where does behavioral economics will come in and say things like, Oh, you know, actually, there are other concepts of, let's say, cognitive load, where other things, or she's just for some other reason or because actually I have less money, I am not able to make those trade off. I cannot evaluate complete information. So basically behavioral economics then introduces these, I would not say now, not a controversy, but initially economists who made fun of like for being saying like, Oh, everything is rational, you know, and these things are called like rationality, but not anymore.
I think they are not treated as that even in mainstream economics, they are acknowledged. The models are trying to come up to pay. But yeah, this like reminds me of how like in the 1700s, when physics was sort of being, I would say structured as a science, it was like, Okay, let's ignore drag, let's ignore friction, like these real world things that really affect everything that we like, you know, encounter, you know, when we are thinking about any sort of object behavior, we will assume vacuum, no other forces acting on it, only two bodies interacting with each other. Like if you add a third body, oh, suddenly it's a very complex situation, we can't solve it anymore. And I feel like this is a little bit like that, that like, you know, initially economics was That's a perfect pattern. Is it?
Yeah, it is perfect. Yeah, because I heard this talk by the AI professor from IIT Madras. Oh, yeah. Dr. Pratyusha, Dr. Pratyusha, actually their company, Sarvam recently raised like this week, they raised 40 million. Really cool. I know. Anyways, like, and when he said that like what you consider as a design variable, when you are at a particular part of the system can be changed and you can question it and it almost seems like economists are like, Okay, let's consider human as a stable and not a design
variable and then behavioral economists are like, Okay, no, they are also design variables. Yeah, exactly. As people's preferences, their constraints, how they make choices, it's all like design variables. Yeah. Yeah, I think economics, they're getting like really mathematical at the point of time. And then a bit like physics in the sense, you want to keep it as much as you can solve it. I'm a applied microeconomist. How does a applied microeconomist get into healthcare?
Like what interests you about it initially? And then also like what kept your interest because it's very different to like get into something and then it's very different to like, you know, keep doing it for years. And are like starting a company in it where you know you're probably going to be there for like five to 10 years like you're spending that amount of time. Yeah, I think by now I've become so passionate about health that I'm like, Oh, I'm going to spend my life doing it. Okay. Yeah, so I started with this question of individual behavior. So I think I was always super interested in the choices people make.
I think my encounter with it started with when I worked in a colony in Delhi where there was a lot of littering. And there basically then I was like working with final mile, which was a behavior consultancy before my PhD where I was trying to understand that there was a fill up such a letter and people would not use it. Right. So for me, like a person who did not live there, I came there and I was like, Oh, this seems like totally irrational or illogical to me that there is a toilet available, but people are practicing open defecation. So I mean, as I said in economics, we study really people's choices. So that's how I really got into wanting to, you know, like study how people make choices. And then slowly I, as I was working on gender and gender discrimination, I started looking at household decisions in general and on health and specific.
And basically that led me to like working with the government on Othrakhan on maternal anemia. So these are often like questions like so there's a government had the question that women are really anemic in India. So like around, I think 60% of women are anemic, but especially when you're pregnant and anemic is a high risk pregnancy. So they were provided the iron tablet to women, right, but the anemia levels still don't go down. And of course the hypothesis was that why aren't the women taking the tablet? You know, is it some kind of we've removed the price constraint of it? But what are the other constraints? What's the so yeah, that's how I started actually really doing work on health through that. I lived in rural Uttarakhand for like almost nine months. It helps that it's really beautiful. So I think I really like saw this huge gap there in generally in healthcare.
But because I was working in women's health, they were just like so many types of constraints and barriers starting from of course things with income and money, which are easier to imagine, but cultural but informational but access. And yeah, so that's how I got into it. And I think that I was already very motivated and like I overall got very interested in preventive health. So I find it fascinating that when we kind of know that something is good for us, but we are not able to act on it. I it's such a I mean, I think I'm attracted to have hard problems. So I'm just like that is a good hard problem. Like we know we have to exercise why are we not able to do that. And I think that's like when I became obsessed with preventive health.
Or you know, like you, I mean, not just in India, but like in Germany here as well, people know they should go for their path, you know, but they weren't right. So and my economics models I were taught like is not able to explain that. So I think then I became obsessed with it. Of course. So what is a model that explains that like I have been needing to go to the eye doctor for a checkup for a year. I know that like my distant vision is kind of going and I haven't gone for a year. I know I need specs like I can't read when it is far away. I know I have cylindrical power. How much is the question and I'm not going.
And it's just like I have known for a year that I have like, you know, cylindrical power because I had polarized glasses on and then like that made things better. And I'm sick. Okay, then this is definitely cylindrical. And I'm not going. I'm like, I'm talking about it and I'm still not going. Your case is interesting. So one of the prevalent ways where which people try to explain say things where the reward is really in the future is through a concept called hyperbolic discounting that basically anything which will give reward really in the future humans are not able to like absorb that or you know, kind of rationalize it into their brain. So in the sense like, you know, we'll have your long run benefit versus right now a chocolate bar will give you instant joy. So it's been consistently seen that you know, human discount far away rewards much lower. Right. So I think this explains a lot of health behaviors which are preventive but you're not sure like maybe you're not convinced of the benefits you'll get in the short run.
Yeah, I also don't know and it's, it's very interesting like every time I tell somebody they're like just to go to the doctor, it's not going to take too long. It's like a two minute thing. And I'm just like, oh, but I am not able to do it because I am not free on the weekend, which is such an ridiculous lie that I'm telling myself. But I guess I am telling myself that. Yeah, I think that there are more layers to it than that. Yeah. But like this happens quite a bit right like even if it isn't far away sometimes like changing behavior is really difficult. I mean like how did you as somebody who had worked for years in like a more slow paced long planning kind of system like how did you change your thought process into an iterative one because iterations are painful. True. Yeah, great question. Yeah, how did I do that? So research was very like during my PhD for example, I took four years and I wrote three papers, which was also super hard. But like I think for like now a startup world definition that seems like insane, right?
That is a little slow. Yeah, it is a little so also the iteration cycles are much longer. Let's say I mean there is of course improvements and iterations. But so I think it's a good question for initially so first time I actually started building a product on my own like a crazy person, no background. And I have to say I wasn't super accurate. I think the bigger barrier than that was actually listening to people I was building for and taking that input because you're right maybe that leads to iteration that's why. So it is so hard. It is so easy to say listen to people who are building for all the things but it is so hard. And I think I was not able to do that for a year. I was actively avoiding it almost. And you're right, I think it was a lot because of because it would I knew it would lead to iteration it would lead to my hypothesis being proved wrong in every month. And that is just super hard. I think at some point of time, after doing that for one year I realized there's no good way to build a product. That's the only way I think it just became like hey, I don't have to come up with the perfect idea and then get sad when the hypothesis is broken by people I'm
building for rather I think I've just become more like hey actually it's people's ideas. You're like I will disown the idea. I'm just making it happen. Oh, that's a good way to I think it has come like I've reduced the ego from it because I was researching you have so much like copyright on the idea right like yeah that's a good way. One of my friends was talking about how like when you are presenting your thesis, you are expected to be the expert at the thing. He's like, no matter how senior the researchers who are taking your interview or who you are defending your thesis against are you need to be the person who is answering all the questions and you need to know the most about it. And I found that really interesting because like that's not how I would have thought of anything to function that like you should be the person who knows the most about this thing in a room full of experts in this particular domain right and like even when you were describing it's it is that right.
I think the biggest hurdle is just like accepting I could be wrong like that feels like such a stab to the heart and like when you just said I it's people's ideas then you're like ha ha people can be wrong who cares of course they can be wrong they are wrong all the time. Yeah, I don't know I just found a loophole and not address the core thing. I don't even know if the core thing is addressable right like it's a little bit like I don't know millions of years of evolution you can't really fight against it at some point you have to accept you know humans can't fly you just can't do it. Yeah, no totally agree I think that's a guy we have great question I also think more about it but I think that's how I've done it for now because we are iterating like really fast now and I don't have trouble and like I think you don't see another way actually so I think it's also that. That way like healthcare is also an industry that doesn't really appreciate the principle of move fast and break things.
So how are you guys like you know working against those non because I would imagine both for your potential customer and for your potential collaborators for them also it would be an adjustment that it's like oh we are okay with making some mistakes and like in healthcare the principle is make zero mistakes even if you have to go there. So yeah so what we I think we do go slower than most startups I would say that and I think it is a lot because of we are in health and so we are a lifestyle company but for a lifestyle company we are the most medically I would say evolved and safe. Because and it's very interesting I think a lot comes because I think training matters a lot it like sets your world view and mental model and of course I think being trained in like economics and policymaking. I have a very systemic approach to things often where of each like little action also you do you think of what are called externalities how it affects other things you know what are the possible other incentives is creating in the system which is very painful as a founder to help. Of course because you know you think of all the risk actually because I am just trained like that right to think of the risk to think of the buyers so actually it plays to our advantage for us for sure to collaborate with people in the healthcare system.
Because they see how we talk how we build how our protocols are how we think through everything and they for sure feel much more assured than just being another tech company trying to you know who's not thought of like the incentives of health or you know the 2% cases that it could go wrong which matters of course. So I think on that part I think we find the collaboration actually quite easy and productive and fruitful on the part of women we are building for I mean our big bet is that in the long run it will be seen as a positive that initially it might feel like a bit painful like why do these guys talk so much about evidence and how they actually build everything and you know about the protocols. I just want to you know improve my hair but I think yeah the rigor of it we are hoping like we really think also health is at this crossroads where women in India are like really demanding not to be just told keep do this by this but rather be like hey tell me my choices let me choose right. It's very interesting like so I've known off very for a long time right like of course I've known off it from the first iteration. No but like this time my PMS was really horrible and I've noticed that that like when I do running but I don't do strength training my PMS is really bad when I do strength training like my PMS is like much more manageable like if I'm doing strength training like I would not even know what I'm doing.
I wouldn't even realize and I think it is something genetic because it is something similar for my sister also if she's doing strength training her period pain is absent if she does only cardio then like it is like pretty bad. What are interesting inside. So I was so irritated that I went and I asked Barry why is this happening to me why is my life so bad right now and then it was like it could be this and like while they both create and offence with the create different kinds of endorphins. And then caught us all levels are different and some things like that was like okay now I feel somewhat sold by this science. Okay Barry you haven't given me the solution but okay thanks for the science.
Yeah I think that it was interesting just like observing my behavior that time also because how between the purchase behavior and knowing that the purchase is going to happen there is like a long gap sometimes like so you might be like. You might be aware of a product and you might decide to use it at an X amount of time and there are like events that lead up to it so like in my case for example I like the people who are building this thing I trust the product I'm even helping build the product but like for the first time when I authentically I would say this was an authentic use case where I was like okay I need help and I'm going to go and use this product because I know that it can help me right now. Right like but there was just this gap it was just interesting to observe my own behavior while I was in pain and while I was using it like a third party like out of body experience of observation was also happening I should note this down. Yeah that's super interesting and did you get any insights on like because it was like it's totally organic right you just thought of it and you're like let me ask Barry. Yeah in the last maybe like few months what has started happening is like when I have a question and especially it's this question of not purely logical variety or purely informational variety I go and ask GPT my questions and I think like that behavior likes has slowly started translating into other areas where like earlier I would have gone and wanted to ask like a friend of mine who is a doctor now I don't have any doctor friends so I can't do that but like now I've realized like.
For example if I have a coding question I'll go and ask GPT I will not go and ask my sister you know at a subconscious level that was what primed me to just be like okay go and ask the bot about it because the bot like probability that the bot knows why this is happening if this is a real thing. Have you noticed that like people sort of semi gaslight themselves when they are thinking about their own health like especially women they would like try to sort of minimize it or stuff like that have you guys encountered that. Yeah I mean I think tons lots I mean I think overall we are like I think getting the insight that of two things like lot of times like women just don't know how to express their what they're feeling especially with things like like you know period pain or anything with our reproductive system and all we've been told so much that this is something being part of a woman you know that it's so quote unquote normal that I would say personally I think that I mean even me so when we started working on this actively on like mental health I was always like I don't have period pain but as I started like cracking stuff and like how seeing how my cycle is and then I actually started documenting if I was having a pain killer during my fourth day or second day and I was like oh I actually like do have this you know and it's crazy it's like I think mentally like PMS is even harder right because it's much tougher to capture but even with like period of physical pain I would say I also did not capture it and so we feel a lot of times when we like talk to women more we describe it we describe our pain other people's pain give the vocabulary give a severity scale then they're like oh yeah actually I just have to lie in bed for the whole day and then you're like yes and then they'd be like so I might say I have period pain it's like yes yeah.
It's so deep you're totally right. Gap-siting yourself. Like there is this thing in psychology where if you articulate something if you name something then like you make it real and like the pain quote unquote lessons but also it becomes more real so now you have to incorporate it in your identity otherwise you can like keep it separate. I wonder if it is also that like you know if you just accept that yeah once a month for three days I am in a lot of pain or like my life is really hard then suddenly you're like okay but I'm not a weak person and like that's the part of your identity that it's suddenly like you know sort of clashes against. Okay this is like slightly dark but I was recently listening to video essay where they were discussing about how when women are asked outrightly that have they been victims of sexual assault they will say like more often than not they will say no I haven't but then they will describe like encounters with their partners or like you know with family members or something.
But they would describe exact symptoms and they would just be like no but I have not been a victim of anything and I feel like when you were describing it's a little bit like that. Yeah that's super interesting this idea of I didn't know this psychology concept so yeah it's good what you're saying to the point is but we'll have to remove that stigma right I think there's a lot of these things especially I would say with sexual assault like there's so much that you are a victim then right and so. So that way even in menstrual pain I'm guessing with PCOS now we say there's definitely that label which like women do not want because there's so much fear around it. Health is so much about fear about insecurity and. Interesting usage of word health is so much about fear do you want to like talk more about that.
Oh so I think like when I started working on preventive health so there's like the psychological concept of lost aversion and like gain like so basically you can frame the same thing as for like when I was working in maternal health as. Oh if you take iron tablets your child will be so healthy and you know look like this you know will grow well the other way of framing it is that. Oh if you don't need the tablet your child might die as an adult born or the child will be you know one KG right so one is like fear reducing the other is mean and initially some studies had shown with more sample sizes in some settings that lost aversion mechanism works stronger for certain framing and you know much more about marketing I don't know what. Concepts like marketers of course use a lot of psychological concepts and I don't want to pinpoint I don't want to pin point they do. But I think in health often I would say like the notifications I get from a lot of labs and everything I would classify as lost aversion and like fear reducing you know do you have cove.
Like you know kind of that kind of way alert are you popping pills on normally or something like that again you can add more to this but I think there are some theories that this human brain is attracted to more of these negative emotions. They're stickier than being attracted they're just like stickier because like the evolutionary psych which is whatever like you know very sketchy but like the evolutionary psych explanation is the person who gets afraid every time the like you know the bush rustles that oh my god it's a tiger I must run away is like so much more likely to have survived than the person who was like it's probably nothing. Yeah I think so that's the balance of me right now healthcare I mean especially in India but also globally is like often the messaging has been very fear reducing I think like the public health system I know like in UK is really trying to change the framing collectively. So around cancer also for example right and so yeah so for me I think like I would say like it is very like when we talk to women now also we are like people are in fear like oh do I have a fibroid baby. Like you know your period is like laid by six days and you know people are freaking out you know like have I got PCOS.
I also wonder if like you know that might also have something to do with the fact that like a lot of times women are just given the diagnosis of something must be wrong with your uterus because you are a woman so either you need to lose weight or something is wrong with your uterus so maybe like there is also the fear there. Yeah I think definitely I think like our understanding and take on that has become that of course there are like let's say a lot of these women's health topics are especially super under research less is known even by like super specialists and the whole healthcare system but we feel like everyone has the right to get clear on his transparent information. Right like to know that this is what even I as a doctor know this is what the health what this is what science can tell you so like for example let's take PMS. Actually the cause is not known like actually what the mechanism is but then like if I go to my gynecologist and I'm like hey I feel like suicidal like two days before my period the gynecologist should be able to explain to me that you know this is really common it happens like this. Science does not know exact reason so I think like we or at least personally I really see that I would want that for myself and I also feel like a lot of the narrative has been often coming from like let's say an economics expert also you know you just tell people what to do they don't have the capacity to evaluate their own choices you know like a bit pedantic like that right and yeah I don't know like I can do that so I don't see why.
The people who want to do that right. Have you come across people who don't want explanations and just want to be told what to do like what percentage of your audience would you say falls into that category. Good question like I can't say clearly but the only data point I can give is that at least on our product we do have like science with which people can choose to read. And from top of my head like people do like 30% people do need that choose that see it so and also women and coming are coming in asking questions also of why not just like how questions of how to you know relieve my pain but also like why am I having you know that's a heavy bleeding is that normal. So there are actually a lot of questions on trying to understand your own body which people are asking at least I think that will only increase because till now the narrative especially with women has been like don't ask questions.
Right. Interesting. Is there any part of like being in research that you miss. Good question. I really used to like these are seminars so like you have a lot of seminars where people like present their work.
They are like intellectually super stimulating. So it's not just about ideas but it's like an idea where people have in a way they've become expert in that idea and they've gone so deep and you think so deeply about something which can be really specific. So at an intellectual level because often these things are quite complex. It is interesting but then also from a starting I really miss the seminars I have to say. I mean I used to really like people I was collaborating with man like what.
We must tell you about this. Oh yeah. My current ones are like so yeah I don't know. Admissions are a bit crazy right. So they're very quirky.
I think that like you know when you are someone who has a very precise definition of who you are then like you know even slight deviations from that would feel very different. So like for example to somebody who's in academia like somebody who's working in media or as an artist they would all seem similar but like as somebody who works in like you know media. I'm like no a producer feels very different from a director who feels very different from an artist who feels very different from an actor right. And like if you're an actor you can even tell like you know more differences between people. I know so that's when in the beginning you just called me an economist.
I was like. You're like why are you using the most generic term for me. That's not who I am. I know yeah identity is super confusing. I wouldn't even define myself as an economist.
How do you define yourself now. I'm not an economist. Changemaker. No no I'm joking. Yeah.
Okay so you're not comfortable yet with calling yourself a changemaker. Definitely not. Like there is this like joke amongst the creative types that like it takes them quite a while to call themselves an artist. Like I have been working in art and around domains for like what 15 years at this point I still don't fully feel comfortable calling myself an artist. I'm like but I'm not an artist.
I'm a designer and I do this and I do that but not an artist. But I think with the creative things it's very very tricky. Like it's so hard to meet people who are so my partner husband he's both sense now but he used to do music before and with all musicians it's such a huge thing if you say they are a musician were a musician. It's kind of like I'm not a musician. So I mean I totally I think with creative things it's really tricky and hard and it's believable because yeah it's so subjective.
You know I mean you know you've thought more about it. I mean like you are the person who was like uncomfortable with calling yourself a changemaker even though you want to make change at scale. I know but. Which is what a changemaker is. If a change is made then maybe I would be.
Yeah I think I would just say I'm a problem problem. That is like the most analytical people like scapegoat in the world. They're like what do you do. I love solving interesting problems guys. That's how I'm going to define myself which is not a definition at all.
But okay I'll let you have that one. Would you say like the nature of collaboration between people who work in like you know how is it different working with somebody in close proximity when you are aiming for like a far out goal and there are no intermediary steps so to say. And then working with somebody where you do have a far out goal but then you are also thinking okay next week we got to do this and then the week after that we got to do this. Yeah I mean very different. So I think good question like in research they were often like no goals or anything planned for like could be months actually which I think will like make some people faint or have a heart attack.
So it's very interesting because startup has so much uncertainty and research has so much uncertainty. Like someone has asked me like what is harder because uncertainty is generally hard. I think in some ways I found the research uncertainty harder. In research though like you have a job and you're getting paid. I think it's start up it's more the money part of it is more like I would say stressful.
Uncertainty. Yeah uncertainty. In terms of in research usually you have a job you're paid and then but in terms of like say in a startup it's like what you said totally correctly that there are always goals right. At least at a quarter level then like and you have like very clear output. Right there's always going to be an output which is coming out there's not very long periods of ideation or you know just open the box and just like roam around there.
In research it's like you are supposed to push the frontier even actually finding a problem at least in kind of economics I was trained it is so hard because you have to find a problem statement which is new and which is solvable solvable by you like it's a very small but not much help because you don't get a lot of help from I mean like professors right people who are experts at the topic so I would say it's way harder than the point is you put in a lot of time and then it is very high probability your idea doesn't work out and then it's like you so yeah it's a it's quite hard to research. So working with people so in the research part I think it's very always self driven even with collaborators or if they're senior collaborators but no one sets like really any goals for you there will be some as often as like project levels but it is such a self driven thing and it goes tomorrow like you could be like waking up and not motivated and not do anything and frankly I don't think in most research places anyone will ask you or pull you off like your supervisor will also be like yeah it's up to you sure you won't get your job and you will see right so it's so high on self accountability that actually the other people are more for like jamming and brainstorming and pushing the frontier solving things together then like actually not you're not like co-workers in the sense I feel like you know like a start up on a normal workplace where you have many more accountability mechanisms where you are more as a team working towards the thing so even in research if you're working on the same people with other people yeah it's somehow like the dynamic is quite different it's still very self driven.
Would you say you like doing the co-creation that comes in start up world? Yeah yeah I really like it so I used to always think I really like working alone because in a context that's what you do and I am very self driven and so even when I was working on like projects or papers with three people four people but like start up collaboration is like 100x intensity of that so I was actually quite unsure if I would like like such high level of collaboration like let's say now of course at the daily level we need sort of the team we collaborate so much I really like it I just need like some time to still work on my own so basically I think there are different types of thinking people like people can get different ways and I am the thinking kind of person where I need to see something I need to take my time to make up my mind about it and come back some people are really like on the sport sharp like they don't want to think alone about it but so I think like I still always need that so even in a start up setup to my give way someone will say like oh we should do this campaign I'll be like okay can I click on it can I think about it I think start ups need more people like you who think about stuff slightly more locked up
What is the startup called which got funded this week? Servum So that's why I am also so excited because his temperament is also of course I feel like quite balanced and very sort of holistic how he thinks and also I was so excited I am like my god it's such a positive energy for the Indian startup ecosystem Yeah there is a lot of buzz about it yesterday I was at an AI event where Dr Pratish's co-founder was there from Servum Yeah like people were swarming him all the time very rightly so but yeah it was really it was there is a lot of special in the AI ecosystem there is like a lot of positive vibes happening right now
I didn't know that I would learn so much about economics I didn't know I could talk about economics but no one asked me about it Yeah I think like we just ask people about weird things that they don't generally talk about So I mean it's interesting it gives very interesting mental model and framework to think about just life I feel Awesome thank you so much
Thank you Thank you