Divya and Kahran look at the design, messaging, and user experience of Cranberry.Fit's website, the company co-founded and run by our guest from Season 4, Aditi Dimri. We explore the emotional aspects of marketing related to PMS, the importance of community, and how to build trust with users while balancing clinical and caring communication.
The moment you add 'personalized' to anything, chances of it being a consumer brand are much higher. That word shifts the entire context.
If you do something really well at the base level — when you're sketching and doing the base glazes — the chances that you'll need tweaks on the final layers are much lower.
So today we thought that one thing that we could do is maybe pick up a website of somebody that we have on and off consulted with for around two years and just help them figure out what they could do better with their website, what maybe like you know where the storytelling is working well and where it isn't working well. Part of the fun I think about these is looking at them fresh.
So even though we both know Crander, we haven't looked or at least I haven't looked at their website in quite a while. And so I think it is kind of fun to kind of be able to approach it with that beginner's mindset is something that we talk a lot about it at Naropa. Notions from Buddhism.
Yeah. I like if anybody is interested, we did interview one of the founders of Cranberry, Aditi a few seasons ago. It was in our fourth season. Quite some time ago.
Quite some time ago. The question we might not know if we were just looking at this brand afresh is this consumer facing brand? I mean we obviously know the answer to it. It is a consumer facing brand.
We know that because we've done work with Cranberry. I'm wondering if you would know that straight off the bat just by looking at it. You would. I think so. Right.
Like I think the first part not necessarily but I think the fact that they're talking about it being doctor backed and that the products are personalized supplements, therapeutic devices and Guiney support. The moment you add personalized anything, chances of it being a B2C brand is much higher because it could be targeting doctors or healthcare professionals.
But yeah, I think that word personalized you right. It does put it into that more of a consumer context than a. I also think that like communication for a brand that is more doctor focused would not have start assessment as to CTAs on the above the fold in website. Start assessment makes it feel like oh it is about me.
Right. I would also say that having humans in the first image generally links to a B2C brand rather than a B2B brand. B2B brand. I don't know about that.
No. B2B brand at least like from the designs that I have seen B2B brands tend to be much more. Graphic like some sort of zooming off chart. Yeah. Yeah.
Basically one of those things like you know you imagine a SaaS company they will not have people in their like you know above the fold image. They would have image of graphs things moving up. There is the data and here are some shiny geometric illustrations to give you an idea of how your business will grow.
Right. I hear you on that but I think healthcare and medical is a little bit more right like I think other like people who do medical devices would be more personal focused. Actually I think if I could think of any medical device manufacturers off the top of my head that we could look at.
I mean pre-empt as medical device manufacturing. Yeah. But they're not like the whole businesses around that. I don't know many but I like I'm just speaking from the perspective of like so cranberry is a like Femm Health tech brand and I would think that like in most tech brands the narrative
for a B2B product is less humanized. It is more like data and efficiency and productivity which I think is not wrong. Yeah. I think the reason I brought it up though is because I think it could feel further in that direction.
Right. Like it could feel further human because this is such a personal place. You know it's like the way mental health has this real gentleness a lot of the times and the way it sells to you or I don't know like a lot of the men's health kind of stuff that I get targeted with like it does this whole thing to make you feel like you're not
alone initially. Like there's this big focus on like being like 70% of men over the age of 40 suffer with like libido issues from time to time or you know unexpected hair loss is like not rare after 25 or something right. So they they'll start off with these kind of messages to make sure that you feel like
you're part of a community and then try and get you with this thing that like you know us in this community we share these these needs. I don't know how do you feel about like the fact that PMS free periods are finally a choice like that is speaking to women. But it's it's like an acronym.
I don't know it's as soft. No, if you're a woman PMS is not an acronym. It's a monster. Right. Like so it might not evoke as much emotionality for you as like male pattern baldness might
but like for women PMS does evoke a lot of emotions. So the reason why I was giving you that example about male pattern baldness and whatnot was because I felt like the way they were doing it is this way of saying that you are seen right like you are seen because you're not alone and that giving that statistic is a little heavy handed way of doing it.
But I feel like it gives you that feeling. And so I just would pose it as a question to you then like do you feel like this conceptualization helps you feel seen. It helps me think of something that I didn't think that was an option is an option. Right.
So like it's a little bit like there is a solution to men like male pattern baldness. You don't have to live with it. It's it's that phrasing. And then there is also this other thing where like. There isn't shame or stigma around it around PMS as a personal failure, but it is more of a
like the entire gender just goes through it and we are forced to hide it. Hear you on that. I just really find myself wondering like is that enough or is it much more around like you need to show that there is this community and that you as the viewer you you want to be part of that community or you feel like you are part of that community.
And this is a shared trait by that community. Right. You're feeling like right now the framing is very personal and it's not one of togetherness. Yeah. Hmm.
And I feel like something. Yeah. Go ahead. No, go ahead. I was just saying that would something like 50% of women suffer with severe PMS symptoms, but
famous free periods are the choice or something like that. Would that make it easier? Maybe that messaging without being so heavy handed because I do think that the audience is different than the male pattern involved in this messaging. Right.
So I think that there is more of a willingness to kind of take that heavy handedness there. Like maybe here it would be around like using your visuals and using maybe more visuals to kind of show that this is maybe the effect of it. Right. Like what does it mean to be having a period where you have PMS versus a period where you don't have
PMS or maybe showing the way that like women are hiding the fact that they're having a PMS period and in a way that then someone can look at that and be like, oh yeah, that's me too. And then I don't know because you will. I know I'm opening a lot of holes here or opening a lot of boxes here by saying that there would be a transformation happening all within one kind of scene.
And I agree that that would be hard, but I'm just wondering if there's a way to kind of give something where someone can look at that and be like, oh yeah, this is me or I belong with this people. And I wonder if it's. But like those are two different things, right? Transformation story and community are two different stories.
So I would keep transformation story, I think secondary. I think first is how do you get someone to look at this and be like, yeah, these people see me. I wonder if it's by choosing a little bit tighter what PMS free means. Right. Like, isn't that really broad today?
Because PMS is really broad. It could be mood swings. It could be migraine. It could be like these guys themselves have migraines, cramps and mood swings, like solutions. But like there are many other things.
People suffer bloating, breast standard, like exhaustion, fatigue, cravings. Like there are so many symptoms because like, so the thing is PMS free is a state. In most women's minds. Like, oh, I don't feel like the world is ending every month. But like PMS is like not the same for everyone.
Like if there are 10 women in a room, they will have like 10 different kinds of PMS symptoms. Do you feel like there's something that maybe is enhanced in that period for some women? Or is that not a thing? Like everything in that period is negative. You can try to find a silver lining or anything, but your hormonal system is actually going on the decline.
So what your goal is is to be more at your baseline, not necessarily to remove the negative elements from this experience, but still have the experience. Like the goal is just to be what you consider normal. It's not to be like, oh, you know, I don't know. Like maybe I have an enhanced libido, which I like, but I don't want to have, you know, breast tenderness. So like I would like to.
There might be people who might have enhanced libido or whatever, but here's the thing. At least for me and the women that I've talked to, most period products, like, you know, you get these ads of sanitary napkins or tampons on TV. And like they're also tone deaf. Nobody is that happy wearing a white pant on their periods. Like just nobody is that happy.
What are you doing? What are you saying? Right. So something like that is how I'm going to put it. Like you could do it, but I think like acknowledging the gravity of it.
And that's so like I really love their new branding. It feels like a good balance between a medical product, a data-backed product and a product which is in the care space without trying to explicitly be this is a woman's brand. Like the colors, the shape language, everything, it communicates that feeling of, oh, this is a product that is going to be more analytical and not just who, who. It's not a wellness brand. Right.
Like they're not, they're positioning themselves away from like a wellness brand and towards a nutraceutical brand. But despite that, they are still able to maintain that feeling of care. At least like that was my read of the situation, like off the branding. Yeah. I wasn't so much thinking about the branding itself.
I guess I would agree. It feels like they're real. I was just more thinking about like how you're connecting with your audience. And I wonder if there's a way to be connecting with the audience more in a way that, like I was saying, right? Like is driving the sense of like they can look at the and say like, oh yeah, this is me.
Like I wonder if like what if your visuals are more around like showing the things that are not accessible when you are having a PMS period and showing these women. I think like I would oppose that because that also depends on what are they, what is the audience coming from. So most women assume that PMS is just a part of life. I've been having my periods for 23 years. Mood swings were just a part of life until I started taking their kit a few months back.
It was just like, yeah, every month I'm just going to feel once that world is ending and everybody hates me and I hate everyone. That's true. I remember that there would be a one day to day. It would be like, oh, wow, the view is going to be a very critical these few days. Yeah, yeah, right.
And so like you make peace with it because if something is happening for two decades, you don't feel like this. This is just how life is. You stop thinking of it as a problem and you start thinking of it as a circumstance. Like I hear you that they could possibly give more of a human touch in this space because there is a lot of care. That they have put.
But right now it feels a little more on the clinical side than it would otherwise. Yeah, how would you change it? Beat of the question. Yeah. It would probably, for example, give a little more context around the start assessment.
Yeah, I was thinking that. Like I think that the weightiness of it and yeah, really the weightiness of it just feels too much. Like you're already kind of giving me not in this very gentle way. I mean, it's okay gentle, right? But it's not super gentle, right?
Like it's a lot of like kind of like I have to be cognitively with you in order to kind of process what's happening. And then it's like, oh, am I ready to start an assessment? Like that is going to be multiple questions. It's going to be steps. It's going to be information I may or may not have accessible right now.
Like do I even remember my last period, right? Like what is true of all of my periods of the last six months or something, right? Like you send you into that whole like, oh, I should do that when I'm ready. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. And I think you haven't built, sorry. I think you haven't built the kind of desire yet. So if I just contrast it a little bit with my sister's company, like who they also have kind of an assessment, if you will, as an onboarding, because what they want to do is they want to take people understand their sizing and their fitting and be able to rent them clothes. So you have to fully understand the person's shape and like what kind of fits they like in order to be able to show them clothes immediately that they can look at.
And what they do there is they do this big focus on connecting with her and building this kind of aspirational desire, which I think is a little bit what I was thinking about when I was looking at this. Now that I'm saying this all out loud, but they'll be like, oh, you know, these women save all this time because they don't have to do dry cleaning and their clothing just arrives and then they just send it back. And these women get to express their inner selves because they're able to try out things in a way that they weren't able to do when they actually had to buy them. And these women are able to access these aspirational brands for them. And here's all the names of those brands.
And then you're getting those are the three kind of pieces of content that you get hit with on that, like first page. And then you're being asked to go and do this assessment. So you're building on the fact that you've created desire and then giving them the heavy thing. And here I'm just worried that you're not creating enough desire. I don't know.
It's because I don't know. And PMS free doesn't build that strong desire in me, but it maybe it would. It wouldn't. But then you have the trust to believe it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I feel like I see what you're interested in. I'm like coming around to what you are saying the moment I start thinking about, would I take the assessment after coming on the website? Probably not. Right. Like I still need more.
And sure, there is the like, you know, things that thing that says doctor back 100% transparent care, no claims only facts. Right. Like there is some words here that do make me feel like, oh, you are thinking about. But at the same time, like over here, not yet. Right.
Like why should I care so I think up here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I would also think that like they need even whether it is text or it is like gentle sort of.
Lead up to the assessment. But like, I would say that like people need. Bigger picture of like, you know, what PMS free looks like. And then by the might sound tacky, but like, you know, doing a rather than start assessment. Let's start building your path to a PMS free period or something along those lines.
Feels less assessment is evaluative in nature. And like, well, this is just like very fine copy things, but like generally for CTA is copy is super important because it communicates the tone. Exactly. And I feel like assessment is more about how good or bad am I? That's the word association with assessment.
Or even if it is how good or bad the situation is, it's not a. Desire track. It's not a let me go in this kind of track. It is a more I am being evaluated track. Yeah, yeah.
And I think especially in the India context, it has ended in the US too, right? But it has that the connection with am I good enough? Is my problem real enough? Am I enough? You know, does this actually work for me?
Yeah, when you said PMS free periods is kind of like a top level idea and it could have sub ideas. I was thinking about what I was saying a second ago, right? I wonder if you could carousel like that top thing. So keeping PMS free period is like almost outside of that. Like above that.
Take each one of those four items and you still do like only one sentence. You keep it light, easy, but like maybe personalized supplements has one sentence with it and an image. And then, you know, there's a moving carousel and then we see therapeutic devices, something image kind of college. Right. And it's just giving establishing a little bit more trust in the brand and in what's being said, because it's giving you that depth.
I think unfortunately we don't live in this arena anymore where Dr. backed like we don't have that same trust in the medical profession that there once was. And so I don't know if it gives enough trust. I'm so sorry to say it, right? Like I think I wish it was different, but I just don't think it doesn't give enough trust.
Like you build some for sure, but you still need to build trust in other ways that people can look at and say, yeah, this does make sense. Or these are people like me or. And I also feel there are a lot of concepts introduced very quickly. So it is a very cognitively heavy and charged. Like landing in a way.
Right. So like supplements and devices and doctor appointment and coaching, like all of that is like it's a lot and giving it some more white space, pasting it a bit more will land the. Will land the message easier, maybe. Yeah.
Yeah. And I wonder about like you're saying about that language, especially because I know that their target demographic is not quite like mass mass market, but the kind of like burgeoning, you know, it's like people who maybe their parents were in a tier two or tier three city, but they've moved to a tier one city, even if maybe their job is initially in like a call center or as an admin job. Like that's, that's kind of the market that they're looking at.
And so I wonder a little bit if you'd want to have more words like personal medicine and like, you know, like a physical devices, not to like to take away the value of those other words, but just stuff that's not like someone has to pause and think a little bit and be like, Oh yeah, like, what does that mean in this context, but something that they would see more regularly in their regular lives and language, because the English would be a second language for almost all of these people, you know, it's not their first language.
And also the problem is that like, it's not that people will not understand it's that they will stop reading. Like that's the problem. They will stop reading. So like they will not get your message clearly. They've like a PMS something.
It's like, Oh, apparently doctors talk here also, maybe you can get an appointment or something like that. But like you can't really glimpse exactly what you would get, which could be easier. It might also be interesting to have a photo of like a kid or something to give people a clear idea of what they would be getting at the end, especially because they're so cute.
Yes. Right. Like their therapeutic devices are so cute. Yeah, I think you could bank on desirability of that if nothing else, you know. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. That is like showing a text thread, right? Of just showing someone talking to someone and having someone to talk to about it. I feel right. Like if it was just like one, you know where it generates like those like as though someone's talking and just do the dot, dot, dot,
then the words appear, right? Like I feel like having a little like gift of something of that would just be right. It would give that desirability to be like, yeah, like when my stomach is like cramping and I am really miserable and I don't want to talk to my husband or talk to some, you know, my mother-in-law about it. Like here is someone at least I can chat with about it.
That is true. Okay. So we should definitely tell them to take better photos of their stuff. I definitely agree that it needs to be cuter. You can read that the bottom text easily, right?
It's just me. It's kind of hard because it's small. Yeah. Yeah. So it does part of cranberry kit is what it says, right?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like the breathing device should definitely be in one of the first things like the breathing device should be here.
Yeah. Okay. So now this is how they are presenting their product. How interesting. How would you do it?
What do you feel like is the selling point in this type of presentation? I am not sure, actually. I would not present it like this. I would. So like just flowing off of the desirability point, I would try to make it much
more like desirable because right now it's like these are the products that we have, but it doesn't feel like this is the solution to this kind of a problem. And so this is how it will fit in my life, I guess. Yeah.
I would have to know why I would want these already, right? Like it's to me, it feels like the name is the primary selling point. And then the image is a clarity on the name. And then there's further clarity about the terms of this particular product. But none of this is about what I would use it for, which is just funny because of where like what we just
came from was like, oh, PMS free periods. And then we've come here and it's like, oh, these are the product. I feel like there was an assumption made about knowledge. Maybe it's because you're supposed to click the little book icon. What happens when you click the little book?
Is that going to take you to? No, they're still building a time assuming. Okay, fine. So maybe the idea would be that you would click on that little icon and that would show you or you'd hover over it and that would show you the science behind it.
I would still flip it though. I would put the science into the like put a short version of the science in the carousel and then do the hover over as the like, this is what does it, you know? Yeah, I would actually not do it as a slider either. I would actually do it.
So if they wanted this, I would say that like, you know, have like a list of items here and they can be like organized in however way or like a list of symptoms that are here. And then if you hover over it, the photo changes and you are able to like, you know, see what is there for it. So like, okay.
I feel like, yeah, I would, right, it would be like maybe something parallax, maybe a hover, right? But something that's a little bit more fun, because I feel like this is a moment where you would add an element of play, but you'd want to add the element of play without it feeling heavy. And I think today the carousel is adding a little bit of an element of play, but it's doing it in
this way that is a really strongly cognitive experience. You're like, shit, I need to do I need a cooling relief cap? Yeah, I feel like, I feel like. They're physical product because I received it. Their physical product has arrived at a lot of play.
And I feel like the website people can see it. Not just this guy, like this guy is very cute, but not just this guy. So like the box that it comes in, like the labels on the box, the like, you know, cards that come with the box, what is said, all of that, like it is a lot of, there is a lot of fun and play all of that.
But it's the website is very cognitively heavy right now. Interesting. So you feel there's a disconnect in the physical branding versus the digital brand? Or maybe like they haven't updated the digital branding strategy.
Sometimes it's also, you know, you feel like you need to present in a certain way. And that's why I almost wondered a little bit if the people who are coming to the website or at least the thought about the people coming to the website or more people who are looking for, you know, validity that these guys really are doing shit. So maybe it's more like for an investor audience or for like a grant based audience,
and it's less for an actual consumer audience. You can order on the website, like there is ordering facility on the website. Every time I've purchased, I purchased from the website. So like actual consumers are coming on the website and they are purchasing from the website. So if you click on one of these, you could go to a purchase.
Like if you click on that. So right. So then that's an interesting point, right? Like if you're saying that there's a repeat customer flow that is being supported, but really relatively easily, and maybe at the expense of new customer acquisition,
that can be a reason for your homepage, right? Like, I don't know, it's an interesting choice. But if you know that your homeboy is not really there for new customer acquisition, and your new customer acquisition is really happening in person or through events or something else, maybe it's not a crazy idea that you're going to gear your homepage around supporting your
repeat customer flow, and you're going to have less as a minor kind of goal. Be like, I'm trying to support my new customer acquisition. I don't disagree with you, but I don't think that they are at that stage where it's only the return customers and not new customer acquisition. And I can also say with some confidence that they actually do want people to not keep returning.
Like they want people to actually feel relief and then be done with it, right? So like if you look at most of these things, it's like, okay, the medicine is for three months, but then this is for lifetime, and this is for lifetime, and this is for lifetime. All the devices are for lifetime. So eventually, you'll probably just be buying the chocolates if you are returning again and again,
which is very tasty. But that's what I'm trying to say. Ideally, they are not really trying to get you to buy these devices multiple times. Like if you bought the TENS device once, you're not getting it again. So that takes you into a whole interesting place, which is that there's likely a product, which is your acquisition product. And you know, in some industries, you even look at those as
loss leaders for certain types of things. I don't think that would make sense here, but they may think about pricing, say the chocolate or something almost to that point, because that's your acquisition products. And then there's kind of a different paths that you're sending your users on. I'm reminded here of, I think you told me about, isn't it headspace that like has a really nice off-boarding experience where they're like, really glad.
Used to, yeah. I don't know how it is now, but yeah, it used to. Yeah, like when I, I think, but this was like many years ago, 2018, 19, something like that. So they must have changed it by now. But like, at that time when I off-boarded and they asked me why are you sort of like, you know, closing your subscription, I was like, one of the options was like meditation is a part of my practice now. I don't need support for it. And I chose that one, because that was true.
And they were like, oh, we are so happy. So it was, it almost felt like a graduation of boarding rather than, oh no, please don't leave us. Please don't unsubscribe. Like they were actually like, oh, we are so happy for you. We are here if you ever need us again, but we hope that like, you know, your meditative meditation journey goes, journey goes well. It is just like really lovely to just get that experience from a tech product, honestly.
And that might be an interesting way to think about the customer for this kind of product, is that you're trying to get people to this state where you feel like they have, I don't know, they're BMS free, let's call it that, right? And if not, you're, if they're not in that state, well, you have different paths, you're trying to send them down. And maybe some of them are coaching, maybe sometimes it's just like a triggered email set, right? Somebody engages with,
you know, I'm having breast tenderness, or we have some way of kind of isolating that this is a PMS symptom they have. And now we have a set of, you know, maybe six or 10 different actions, some of them are trying to encourage them to buy a device, some of them could be a certain set of emails or certain set of coaching, some of them could be connecting them with different people, but we have a different path that we're sending them down when we understand where they are.
And if they're not able, you know, if we can't get them to a freedom from that symptom, by the end of that path, maybe there's a way they can go back to an earlier stage and we kind of keep them at that point. But it's almost like thinking about them as I'm thinking about almost as like a sales funnel with stages, except instead of the final stage being like you made a sale, the final stage is that this customer is at a point that they're like, PMS free, right? So it's
like, depending on what stage they are at, what kind of problem they're having, we're sending them on a different path. Which is I suppose what the assessment is supposed to do. Yeah, is there anything else on the bottom of the page just before me? Yeah, yeah. So there's a lot more. Okay, so we've gone from showing us the products. And now we're talking about what is BMS. And we have some more credibility being added by big words. I think like this section should have been much earlier.
Yeah, this section should have been before you show like I saw the products. Yeah. And I imagine the reason that you would maybe see data that would tell you to keep it higher would be because of your repeat customers who are trying to make repeat purchases. But for your new customers, I 100% agree. This is I wouldn't have scrolled down this far, right? Like I wouldn't have scrolled down to see that. I mean, I didn't. Yeah, I would have already clicked start assessment.
Yeah. Okay, so this is one of the products. And here you have start assessment again, which feels like fair place. Like, I feel like now if I have seen all of these things, I would have an idea of do I want to click on start assessment or not? Yeah, I gotta say I don't love this. It's just because you know the context is there's so much fake, like, like, this doesn't feel as compelling as a visual. But yes, I agree with you about like
what that actual content is. I think that if that visual was a little bit stronger and made me feel a little more confident in what it was that that would make me feel ready to start assessment. Yeah, I think that is actually a good point that you're raising. Oftentimes, a lot of products are not doing what they say they are trying to do. Yeah. And like these guys are like it is effective. They're like your intervention does help. So then like they're not creating enough emotional trust.
It really reminds me of this very good friend I have in Boston, who he's from a science background and he's been working on this solution for soil nutrition and assessing carbon in soil. And, you know, came out of MIT, I think four years ago, and has really been perfecting the technology. And we were looking at a slide deck together last year. And I was just like, dude, like, I know you've done more than this. Why is there not more in your slides?
And we were talking about how it's just so interesting that he comes from this place and being like, oh, if I'm not 100% confident in this, I would never put it up there. And I was like, I know, but the problem is, is the world that you're up against, right? The context that all of your viewers have is not that the context your viewers have is that people make claims that are big all the time. And so when you're making only really solid claims, the problem is, is they're
being slotted in with all the competitive companies who are making kind of superfluous claims, right? So then it's really a script, excuse me. And so then they, you're getting discounted in the way that we've learned to discount things because of the world that we're living in. And so when I look at this, especially something like, you know, that it says Dr. Placeholder, I mean, that's a really small thing, but it just doesn't feel real. It feels like, oh, yeah, maybe this thing kind of
works, but it doesn't really work. And I've just seen so many shitty bots at this point, you know, like, I think I was trying to change my American air India ticket, and it was just like, it made me seem like the bot was going to do something. And the end, it just dropped me. And I was just like, you just wasted my time. It's so frustrating. Yeah, I agree. Like, there are a lot of people who are saying random things. And like, they are saying that, oh, this will improve things
like this or like that. Yeah. So I think showing it as a real chat would just be so compelling. You know, like, just take a screen recording and like literally do it as a real chat and put the gif of the screen recording, it would just feel really compelling and like, and a link to be like chat with Barry now, you know, just these things that can get the person that feel like lower stakes. Okay, so now we have a cranberry, we have a testimonial. And then this is also a testimonial
testimonials. No, this is an FAQ. This is an FAQ. Whoa. Why is there so much content on this homepage? This I feel like is fine. Well, is this a single page site? Like this feels like no, it's not about not necessarily just people. And what is PM is? So care product, that is the place the care product. It's kind of a single page site.
That link is just broken right now. A little bit of yeah, things are moving around a bit. Is how I'm going to put it. So what is yeah, let's see the assessment. Okay. Okay, cool. Get your kit in three steps. So there are the steps assessment, kit recommendation, delivery, and then gynecologist check in. Okay. My name, age, gender and phone number. Do you think they'll kill us if we put some
test data in? You could just call it test maybe. I don't think we can see the next screen unless you well, I don't know if you want to put information on the internet right now. So it might be more interesting to think about like, you know, what is the question you're supposed to because the thought that came to my mind was it might be better to have a step between the assessment and me coming on the website, which familiarizes me with
cranberry either gives me a moment of connection, a moment of understanding or something that I could do that doesn't require me to order a whole kit. Yeah, right because like a low like a teaser product something to try out the service. Yeah, yeah, because like I feel like it would be a lot. Yeah, it's like when you are selling merch, you want some stickers. Yeah, because like, you know, a sticker is something that is like the person is going to
take with them and then they're going to remember it's yeah, it's I remember hearing this about high end like luxury brands years ago that the reason why they always have all the like wallets and belts, you know, near the front and what not is because people get pulled in by something else but then they actually want to buy something affordable and small. And so then they're not buying a belt, you know, and I think that's also why a lot of them have perfumes.
Yeah, like smells are nice, but like perfumes make a very nice, expensive present without them being necessarily personalized, right? It's Chanel, it's for a woman, everybody is going to feel flatter that I got them a Chanel, right? Like it's just get one from the woman's aisle, kind of a thing. Though there aren't aisles in a Chanel store, store but you get it. Yeah, and I was just thinking about how that like era of scratch and sniff in magazines where the perfumes would be in the little
foldouts, right? That made it really real to the person, you know, that now the perfume is here in my life, I can see how I would feel with it. And so I wonder if that's what we're trying to say, right? Is there's a way, yes, you know, like we've already talked about helping the person feel seen, helping them realize that this is a solution for them because they can picture themselves in it, but then also giving them a really tangible way to feel like, oh, this is what it would feel like
to have this thing. Because right now, you are right when you gave the example of your friend from like the friend who's making the soil solution. Yeah. Like it feels like I could trust you, but it's a brand that says everybody should trust us, not why I should trust you. I'm reminded of that conversation I had with Lena really early on, right? And when she was talking about how depression medicines in the US, particularly the way they're done is they just cycle through them
because they feel like the harm to the person of taking the wrong medication is not that high, but they can look and see, did this work? And if it didn't work, they'll try a different medication. And I wonder if this is a situation like that, where they're airing too much on the side of being careful, where it's like, what is the harm? The harm is that someone spent $2,000 and it didn't work for them. Well, I bet people try out a lot of shit for PMS, you know, like at a lot
of it doesn't work. They probably don't. The problem is that they probably don't. Like I said, people just live with it. Like hot water baths or something or something. At least my mama told me they rubbed this herb on my stomach or something. Yeah, but it's not effective, right? In most cases. But I'm just saying that people like that willingness, I feel like this is a market where there's that willingness to try. And I wonder if it's okay to bias on the side of being like,
hey, you know, 40% probability this will help you 30% probability this will help you right like you give it with some caveat so that it doesn't feel like you're giving a you're not setting it up like I'm giving a formal medical recommendation. But you're saying hey, but they are giving formal medical recommendation, right? So like when they do this assessment, they would actually yeah, yeah, they would actually create a prescription. I know, I know. I'm wondering if there's a softer
way to start. Because I feel like the onboarding flow is a bit, it's a bit steep. Yeah. Like here's a crazy idea. And you know, I'd really think about it if this was right. But maybe there's a world where there's a quiz that's like, is chocolate, you know, is a period chocolate right for you? And it's a really short three question quiz. And then it's like one a full assessment of your period and what could work for you 200 rupees click here. And it's like even it's actually a
paid assessment, right? But then there's this is a different mental context for the person where they're like, yeah, you this is a paid service for me. But so then it's a much more of an alignment of, you know, this is it's not the first step, nobody's you're not expecting someone to jump in and be like, yes, I'm going to spend this money initially with this brand. I don't know. There's a much cheaper lower cost mentally and physically first step. And then there's a second step that
is the weightiness. Like, sometimes, you know, you want people to pay for almost the like investment versus the actual money. Yeah. I feel like it's also so interesting how many different things we just went into, even though we were just looking at the website. So like, you know, what is your onboarding flow? What is your story? But also what is the what is the product pricing? There are like, you know, right kind of slope there. I also feel like oftentimes when we make websites, we
don't think about it so much. Really? I mean, the first iteration, but I feel like as you iterate on them, like, those are the questions that you keep trying to answer. Like, does it support my customer onboarding? Does this support my product flow? Am I seeing the upselling that I'm looking for? Do I need to have a different landing page for different kinds of customers? Like, those are the things that make you build depth into your website as time goes on. Maybe more in weird
culture companies, you know, westernized, educated, industrial, rich, developed. I have never heard that before. It is so common. This is why most psychology research was breaking around like, you know, 10 years ago, because all the research was done in weird cultures. So it's like, oh, these are students of Stanford. This is their mental pattern. And it's like, bro, students of Stanford are not average population. Fascinating. Yeah, I guess, I mean, but how
else would you do it? Right? Like, if you, you want to like keep like, you want to approach it in an iterative way, I would imagine like, you know, like, you would, but I'm just thinking from the perspective of like, if your brand is not acquiring your customers, their customers by people coming on the website, purely, it is very much recommendation oriented. It is very much like, you know, then in other ways, then like data would be less clear. It wouldn't just be very
crisp like, oh, people are dropping off here. So we can do something different here. Like, it's not as disconnected of a society, right? I hear you. I still feel like you would understand what is the things that are driving drop off. And maybe it's like, there's I'm not building enough trust with my user. And then it's like, well, okay, what are the different ways I can build trust? Some of it may be making it easier for my existing customers to talk about this.
Simplifying the message. And then some of it is maybe, yeah, like, you know, as I look at the website, like how am I, how is the collection of form and structure and content together delivering against trust? And maybe one of the ways we need to do that is by adding more depth by like, I don't know, giving more places that people can dive deeper. So like, I don't know, right? Like, I hear what you're saying, but I think I would, I would still feel like it comes down to what are
the feelings I'm trying to create at different points for different kinds of customers. And then how am I being successful in doing that? See, but that is too generic. That is like, you learn by trial and error. Yeah, sure. But like, it is in the specifics where you get better at it, right? Yeah, I hear you on that. I don't know. I guess I don't need to belabor the point. It just it feels to be like, maybe you
wouldn't find out, but there would be some way that I think, you know, there's a difference between a website that you build initially, and then just the way you understand what you're trying to communicate. It's also because you're never just building the website, right? That's why I brought up the weird culture point, because generally, capital is abundant in the westernized world, but it's not in the developing nations. So the constraints of you have to focus where your
energy is going, become much sharper. You make decisions in those points, right? They might not be best decisions in the long run, but you do optimize. You're saying there's higher tolerance for good enough. Yeah, there's much higher tolerance for good enough, both on the consumer side and on the, so like, you know, in Japan, customers also expect perfect and businesses deliver perfect. In India, customers expect the juggard and businesses deliver juggard, right? Business is
like, ah, yeah, sir, just wait for like 10 minutes, even though it was your reservation, we gave the table to somebody else, can you just wait? And then you're also like, ah, okay, I'll wait for 10 minutes. Would it happen in Europe? They will be like, no, no, we cannot let anybody sit on this table 45 minutes before also, because God forbid the person who has made the reservation, if they have to wait for half a second. New York, they'll just tell you
how long you have the table for. Yeah, but that is also like a very specific kind of prioritization, right? A very specific kind of behavior. Interesting. No, it's an interesting point. I mean, and then that kind of takes me back to what we were saying earlier, right? Which is that, you know, if this is supporting some of their key use cases, which is like maybe when people who are familiar with the brand want to make a purchase,
that flow has little drop off because of how easy it is to complete. Like, you know, maybe that makes sense for where we are right now. So much more fun if we actually had one of them on call. Next time when we do this, we should definitely have one of the persons from call. I don't know, man, because it's so hard for them not to end up defending, you know, like at the same time, you know, we end up defending. Yeah, but we are also hypothesizing only, right?
But I think there's a certain freshness to it that is possible when you don't kind of feel like you need to caveat it to like protect the person, right? Maybe I can share it. Like, if I felt like someone was getting more defensive, I would so I would try to get them to a place where we could have more of a conversation and less than being like in a defensive point. But then I'm managing for that, you know, which is a separate thing that like actually
just looking at what is being effective here. No, I just feel like, you know, sometimes we run too far into how we are thinking about it and like correcting and defending our own points. And I just think that like an open conversation with the person who made the artifact leads to more rich, like, I feel like it was when I said it could be a paid assessment, it's what set you down this path. No, before we began also, it set me down this path. But we'll see you next time. Yeah. Yeah.