Divya and Kahran dive in to the luxury Ayurvedic brand Almora Botanica. How to build emotional connection? How do you engage beyond cognitively? How to choose where to reinforce ideas, where to simplify, and how to ground yourself in an investor deck? Also a jump into looking at colors and how the different components of the form reinforce the storytelling.
Having humans in the first image generally signals a consumer-facing brand. B2B brands tend to have graphs, geometric illustrations, and data moving upward.
If you're making an artifact, it's useful to think about how it will be received. Is this an assistant artifact that I present alongside, or is it a standalone artifact?
And so today, Kahran and I are actually doing something really interesting. One of Kahran's friends is building a botanical luxury skincare brand, I think, right? And they have shared a deck with us. And this is somebody who's really experienced in the skincare beauty industry. I think he was the director
of Himalaya, if I'm not wrong. Yeah, Ravi, Ravi Prasad. Yeah, he was the MD of Himalaya. And this brand is called Al Mora Botanica. Ravi was part of Himalaya, I think from the very beginning, I just found an article in 2012 where he was the executive chairman. Yeah, but
he's been in that industry for a long time. Yeah. And I guess like it's post Himalaya that he decided that he wants to build this company. Correct. I don't really know the background too well. Okay.
I think, yeah, so maybe good for us. But basically, like it is a more international luxury skincare brand, and it is focused on Ayurvedic products. I think that's all I know about it. Yeah, I think what we know is that right, Ravi has this big
background at Himalaya, he helped grow that business from being small in the early 2000s to kind of being this, you know, on the same caliber as like L'Oreal and some of these big brands. So they decided with this brand, they want to do something that was clean natural skincare, which has really
been a focus for a lot of skincare brands in the last few years. And I think as Ravi was kind of explaining to me that some of what we expect from our products is at odds with being natural, right? So apparently the scooping creams like the ones that you would take out kind of like this, right, like those have
products for the stabilizing of them that couldn't be considered natural. And so that's why, for example, Amora's products are labeled 99.4% natural, because that 0.6% is coming from the stabilizing products. Honestly, more earnest than like a lot of Oh, this is an all
natural brand or whatever. Yeah. Okay, I did a little bit of research about Himalaya just now. Yeah, it's named itself to be Himalaya in 2002. But there's a 2002 article quoting Ravi as president and CEO.
Interesting. Okay, so I'm excited. Let's get to it. Shall we get to it? You know what I find very interesting and this was my thought
on the website as well, that their images are racially ambiguous. Yeah, like this could be a Hispanic woman, but she could also be a brown woman, but she could also be a white woman. But when you consider that they launched in, I believe, the UK
and France first, and then in the EU and then in Dubai, and then Singapore and now the US, like it kind of makes sense, right? Like those are the people that you find in those places, especially think about like Dubai or something. I feel like it's a lot of like people who kind of look like
this. We were like, you can be from anywhere in the world and you probably are. Yeah, but it is very interesting for a brand, right? Because like January, I think at least till the last decade, there was a lot of racial purity that one would see in like a lot
of brand imagery. So like if it was a brand made in America for Americans, it was very white, you mean kind of situation? Or even like a lot of the beauty brands tended to be more Eurocentric.
Or Asian, I feel right? Like Asian brands. Asian brands tended to be like, you know, Asian, but like everywhere else, they tended to be more Eurocentric. Like even brands which are maybe more from the Middle East or
something like that, they would also have more European features rather than like, you know, more Middle Eastern features. It's just interesting that like this one doesn't. I also feel like it's the compositionally, this is a very good image.
Like just the color in the composition is really, really beautiful. The fact that like the Guasha stones on her face are the same color as the background behind her. Amazingly well done.
And I feel having that beauty where it'd be just a little bit bigger, even though they're like normally having three different font treatments for three different words would be very questionable. This actually seems to work.
Like it's so subtle that you don't feel like it's standing out at you. Like I don't think I realized it was three different treatments the first few times I saw it. It's only now that I'm really staring at it.
I'm like, oh yeah, but just kind of emphasizes without overpowering. Yeah, I also find it interesting that like there's a certain sense of maturity to this deck. Like almost everything else we have seen feels like it's
aspiring to be mature. Interesting. Like at least to me this feels a little more on the side of this is polished. This is like, you know, weirdly feels like it is done by
people you can trust. Do you feel like the logo comes into that? You have a lot more experience with logos than I do. Somewhat I am like, I'm curious to know why they choose this. Like this is much more at least from like my experience.
This is much more like a Korean beauty brand aesthetic kind of logo rather than like a European beauty brand or a beauty brand that is targeting Gen Z. It's like the O and the A are exactly the same circle. And like the like it's just so much symmetry is like the M is
exactly symmetrical and like is that part of what makes you say that? No, so like part of it is the geometric nature of the font itself. But part of it is just like, like this is a very neutral font.
Right? Like in the sense that it's not it's not particularly swirly. It's not particularly trying to evoke old like it doesn't look like a tech company font. It doesn't look like a beauty company font.
It's it's a font that you wouldn't associate it with any specific kinds of brands doesn't look like a health or cleanliness or like you know, natural oriented brand either. And I actually have the products. I have four of them that Rebbe gifted me when he was here in New
York. And it's really interesting because I feel like they're so light that it's it's almost like it's like sometimes when you use a moisturizer, you can really tell that like, oh, your skin feels really different.
And in this case, I would say I feel like I can my skin doesn't just it doesn't like feel like it's asking for my attention. You know, sometimes I'm like, oh, you know, like sometimes, you know, I'm like, oh, you know, and like, like this part of my hand is dry, like I really should moisturize it when I get a
minute. I'm just like, cognizant of in the back of my mind. And I feel like when I've been using their facial products, I just feel like my skin is just like recedes a little bit as a concern. Like I'm just like, oh, it feels great.
You know, it looks great. Like it just and I think if that with that context, right, like the brand kind of feels like that, right? Like, it's like, it's kind of a receipt. Like it's like, I'm not going to be a big deal.
Just going to do a thing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, very true. It's also like a lot of the and that's where I made the comparison to the Korean products because Korean beauty products also
tend to be lighter. Yeah, like they tend to be a lot more easier on your skin. Their makeup tends to be a lot more softer. Everything about it tends to just like go less heavy on your skin.
And like they use this kind of branding as well. Not exactly this, but like the vibes are similar is how I'm going to put it like the or or L'Oreal is much more heavy handed. Right. Both in product and in branding.
Yeah. And those are also good products, but like they just they just stand out a lot more. Yeah. You know, it's interesting that we don't feel like it's weird.
The water is green. Like until now where I've started to think about it, I'm like, it is kind of unusual that water is green. But like, I think that's also what like in a very interesting way. That's what visual coherence does.
Right. Like, yeah, it's one of those things where like colors are always in relationship to one another. So here they basically have just two tones. There's a brown, which is also like, you know, very light, but in
her shirt, in her hair, in her hands, right, like her skin tone is similar beige, brown kind of they're all like that similar tone, which is a very natural tone. It's very warm. It's inviting that kind of color.
And then you have the green in the background with some dark highlights, like sorry, sorry, some dark shadow areas. And that's about it. Still just those two things also sit so nicely together. Yeah.
Like the green, the background is entirely from like the blue to yellow spectrum of green with very little anything else. And then yeah, she's basically all in the shades of brown. Yeah. With the white as a highlight.
It is very nice. Yeah. So I would say that like they're able to even from this, like just a singular image, it feels like it's a mature brand. I can't say anything other than that.
Like it feels like it's a really mature brand and a lot of thinking has gone into what does this need to feel like? Wow. How do you feel about it? I mean, I feel like I would often find myself asking, why am I here?
You know, on my second slide, and I feel like this has told us why we're here, right? It's told you, it's giving you a quick little summary of like, what should you be interested in? It is assuming that you are wanting to look at this.
But I think again, as we talked about in the past, that that's usually a fair assumption, right? Like if someone is opening up your deck, in this case, I think this is going to be an investor deck as we kind of go through it. Right?
Like if you have some capital, you can bank on some interest capital. And I think that this much kind of information, it doesn't feel overwhelming, and it feels a little bit like I don't need to pay attention to all of these words. Like, you know, there's certain keywords that I can like pick out and
like kind of skim the rest of it. So it's, it's something that you and I talked about actually in game dialogue design a long time ago, that really stuck with me that like it's really hard to kind of make information feel at the right level to the person.
Like there was a time I was writing dialogue and it felt like it was all important, but it wasn't. And I think here they've done a good job of being clear. Like I know all of this information is going to come back in later in the presentation.
It just feels very clear about that. Um, but it's giving me a little high level of what we're going to be talking about. So the only thing that I would say is like the first page was very human. And in a very weird way for me, it's a whiplash because this page isn't particularly human.
Like say that was also very polished and very clean, but like there is a certain human nest to it, but the copy doesn't have that human nest at all. Like the copy feels to me a little bit glass boxed almost like I can see it, but I can't touch it. No, it's deliberately done that way.
Right. Like I think it is zoomed out to give a different facet. Like there's this very like, you know, lady with her, um, would you say it again? Guasha? Guasha.
Yeah. Glasha, right? With her Glasha stones. And it's like, that's to give you this feel of like, yes, this is accessible. This is light.
This is like almost fun. Right. Like I'm doing it in the outdoors. And then here it's like, oh no, wait, we're science backed. We are, we have a lot of information.
We have content behind us. Oh, we know what we're doing. Right. Like that, that, that is what this to me is about. So we like, no, we're not just flying by the seat of our pants.
We're not just like another direct to consumer brand. Like this is a brand that is, has a lot of historical knowledge from it. Right. Like the scientific information and wisdom. And then also it's referencing that this is a industry standard that they are
but not only aware of, but are reflecting in their product already. Uh, okay. I guess I could say. I don't think you're there. There's a language shift, which is maybe a little unexpected, right?
Commitment to send, to sustainability and transparency, high performance, skin care and wellness products, discerning global consumer. You know, it is a, um, how should I put it? It is language that keeps you a little bit at a distance. Right.
It's not language that's really inviting you in. So I think I do understand what you're saying there. But I do agree that like just having the opening statement as like, this is what we are, this is what we do. These are the things that we care about.
It's correct. Okay. This is how I would put it. It's correct informationally and maybe narrative flow wise, but doesn't it emotionally right for me?
Do you feel like that would be softened from having other elements more or just softening the presentation of these elements? I think softening the language would have really helped. Yeah. Like I think the, the problem is like, I don't know what to remember from this.
So I would maybe just take away a sense of the brand, which is fine. But like maybe I want to remember something. Yeah. Strangely, I wonder if like actually going more towards like bullets or like somehow highlighting kind of key parts of the information might actually be softer.
Whereas usually that is a little bit more of a harsh presentation, if you will. Or like showing why you care about it. Yeah. Something like that. Okay.
Let's move on. Okay. So this is their why now slide. Yeah. I'm having so much trouble reading this.
Yeah. That first sentence is so hard for me to, our consumers are interestingly interested. Increasingly interested in the interconnection between the mind, body, health and wellness, nature and the self.
Wolf. Okay. Coming into contact with your commotion, healthy and taking a holistic approach to health, wellness and beauty is a growing trend, particularly after COVID. Interesting.
Comforting. Medicine and natural. Hmm. I feel like if you're going to say these things, I would use data, you know, because like there is data for them.
I would also not put two super talky slides one after the other. Yeah. So you have given me a lot of buzzwords and while you're presenting that like this is your hypothesis for why now there is increasing trend. Okay.
Actually like, like smooth next. What does it say? Okay. This is just, uh, This is helping us meet Revy.
Like, cause Revy is, you know, they can figure in the business. So understanding that he's a trusted person. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
Wow. We're diving in deep. Okay. Okay. So this is both giving us market information on the leftover here as well as
information about the value of a particular facet of their approach. I think a main facet, but just to be clear, it's like, why have we taken this sub market and it's explaining about the size of the market and the value to the user, I guess. Yeah.
So you know what is interesting? Both of us have emotionally checked out. Right. Like it's page five. We were really drawn in, in page one.
Yeah. Like this is, I, that image still is very evocative. Like I still feel connected when I see this tech, this slide, but anything afterwards, I feel less and less connected to the brand. Yeah.
Yeah. And I feel like maybe this is the kind of deck that you just ascend, but even in that case, I feel like, I feel I've lost my grounding a little bit, right? Like, I don't know what we're talking about. Yeah.
It feels a little bit like I'm being bombarded by a lot of different things and they're not threaded in a narrative fashion. You need to know why right now, then you need to know what is the market size. Then you need to know why people are choosing our product or our market approach.
And then like, you know, these are the things that make our product special. And it's like, it's too done, done, done, done, done. And the interesting thing is like, it's a thing that you can do. It's a 38 page deck. Yeah.
And we're on page seven and there has been so much heavy content. And these are not just like, there is a lot of writing. Everything is very cognitively expensive. Yeah. So we kind of got introduced to the concept of what the brand was then at the
founder, then why be natural and natural. And then into what Ayurveda, like their background in Ayurveda. And now also the COVID part. Then the market is COVID part. And then now we're kind of talking about an overview of everything, which is not
unfortunately a playback of what we've heard so far. I think a lot of this is new things except for their mentioning Ayurveda again. Yeah. Okay. Let's keep caring.
If you just go Ayurveda. If you just go one slide back, not this one, the one with many options. No, no, no. Slide eight. Yeah.
I feel like if there are five categories of what makes it special and there are three to four items in each one of those categories, I'm not going to remember any of them. You kind of have to select. It feels like their thesis is a lot of people care about natural products.
And they are covering all the bases. Yeah. Actually feels like there's not that many ideas on here. Right. Like I think what it's really saying is we have good formulations across a couple
of different places. Right. Like all four of these are really about their formulations. Even this potentially is about their formulations. Right.
And then and this, and then they're saying that we, um, and this and this. And then they're saying that we have good stuff for the environment. Right. Like they have this, that's something else about the environment. And then I think they're saying that they guide you in how to do it.
Right. Like there's a space yoga, they have these spas, they have guidance. So. Like I think those are the main ideas, right? Are we really strong?
We have great formulations. They feel really nice. They're good for the, like they're sustainable, good for the world. And then also that we're going to handhold you in getting on board with this brand and understanding how to best like use it with your.
It's interesting. There's not a big personalized push here because I feel like I've seen that a lot in other places, you know, like they're trying to sell, we have it right for you without being personalized, which is just an interesting choice. I would also say that like, you know, at least for me, this would have been a
much stronger slide if they just doubled down on the fact that they have great formulation removed everything else. So like it could be that it is this much natural. Um, that's backed by science that there is patents on it and fewer ingredients for maximum result.
Like, you know, just these three or four points would have really, really become much stronger than having like one, two, three, four, five, six. God, some like 20 points. Yeah. Yeah.
I wonder if there was a way earlier on to introduce a, like a thread line, right? Like maybe, maybe there's some personal story or something that like can start with COVID and introduce us to Ravi, talk about why natural products have been the answer, how that's come out of Ayurveda and it's integrated and then really kind of now it dive deeper, you know, but you have some sort of thread
line. Go ahead. You know, what is interesting, they do not ask what is the problem. They're presenting a lot of solution, solution, solution, solution, solution, but there is no problem articulation.
Yeah. The only thing I think there was was that today's discerning consumer requires something, where was it? Yeah. It's implied that today's consumer requires high performance skincare and
wellness products that they aren't able to find. Like that's the kind of. Yeah. Thing that, yeah. That they're saying and kind of reinforcing a little bit here.
Yeah, but like the problem statement is almost assumed to be understood. But it's like, it's not necessary that people understand it. Right. So like when I come to this slide, I still haven't bought into the idea that this is special or this needs to be special or that I care about that brand.
Well, I think I'm going to push back on you slightly there because I think that you and I spend a lot of time in industries where you're not stealing market share from a direct competitor, but you're stealing market share from a different way of doing it. And I think that this industry is one where you're much more likely to be
stealing market share from a competitor. Still haven't made the case for it as much though. Well, I was going to say something maybe slightly different, which I thought, which I feel like I used to not wash my face with a cleanser at all because I just thought they didn't work for me because I always use cream based
cleansers and then this is a gel based cleanser and it does work for my skin. Right. My skin doesn't super dry out with it. And so it's almost like they've, they brought me to using a product I never used before.
And I just don't know how big of a, I'm a small part of the market, right? I'm sure the market is using a product and they're switching to this. And also that's a retention problem, but that's not a trial. Like how do I get you to try my product? It has to be, it has to evoke something.
And the problem is they're using all the, my problem is they're using all the right words, but they're not evoking as many feelings as those many words should. Their cover image did. Like their cover image felt like it was natural and it was clean and it was green. And it was like, I want what she's having, but like I haven't felt the desire.
I agree that like, you know, beauty industry functions differently from tech, but beauty industry is way more desire based. Yeah. You know, here's a good example for your viewpoint, actually. So I bought, I went to a facial last month and I bought this like cream.
She recommended me as a night cream and I have not opened it, right? It's been a month or more. It's literally still in its plastic, but Ravi at the dinner we were having, he took out the oil, opened it and he put a little bit on my hand and was like, feel this.
And I was like, wow, it's like literally the lightest oil I've ever felt. And I was like, I have to try it. Right. Or so I, I did still forget, you know, like I still didn't do it for a few days, but when he asked me about it, like three or four days later, I was like, oh,
yeah, that did feel really nice. I want to try it. Right. So there was something that created the desire. And in this case, it was literally touching the product, but otherwise I wouldn't
have actually, it would be like the cream I bought, you know, like some freaking 150 is just sitting in like heaven. And they just have not gotten around to opening the box. So I do think there's some truth to what you're saying, right? Like that, that experience of touching the oil is not here in this deck.
That experience of wanting the product has not happened yet. And I do think that's important, even when it's an investor deck, right? Like, especially when you're in a consumer business, you're in consumer brand, and they are going to trust that other people want the product, right? Especially if you don't are not 100% certain that your investors actually
use the product themselves and oftentimes they won't. Right. So you've got to be able to help them see that there is a desire for this product and see if you're not going to do it from data and ideally do it from both. But like have a narrative that will also support that story.
People want this product. Yeah. So like if they were leaning into the cognitive part of the story where there is like, you know, let's say that L'Oreal used to have X amount of share. And now that share is going to like, you know, these XYZ brands, which are more
nature oriented and like, you know, just showing what sort of split is that or something like that, because now we are like eight pages out of 38, we are like 25% in. If I was feeling emotional desire for the brand or product, or I would associate that emotion with it, I would have done it by now.
You'd have done what by now? I would have associated some emotion right now. It's a blank slate and like in all my learnings or branding and whatever, like honestly, blank slate is worse than a negative reaction. Oh, because people can project whatever they want onto it.
No, because you don't want to apathy is worse than hate. Hate means they will still remember you apathy or indifference is like, like, I don't know. A lot of times this is a sidetrack, but like a lot of times when people are publishing new stuff or something like that, they get very worried.
What if nobody likes it? The biggest problem or what hurts is not what if nobody likes it? But what if nobody sees this? Like apathy is a much bigger problem. And same thing, right?
Like if your product is on the shelf, somebody has to pick it up. What is going to make them pick it up? And how are you creating that sense of desire? And that's where like, so what I said in the second slide, like the story doesn't feel as connected.
Mm. Image feels very connected, but the story doesn't. And like, as we have seen more and more words, the words feel more and more disconnected. I wonder a little bit if part of that is just we have been so much more in
this attention economy and spent so much more of our working time in attention economy than people who started working like a decade or two before us. And I wonder how much that like just, I mean, I hear you on the attention economy part, but like, do you really think that? Is era madman style advertising people would think that story doesn't matter?
Okay. But because I do, I mean, I feel like this is the key thing, right? And it maybe is just this 99.4% natural. And it might be because I see that on the product. I also heard Ravi say that a couple of times.
So I have this reinforcement from all these different places that this is the most important thing. But I also see it and also we just see it on the eighth page. You're right. I don't know about it because yeah, you have the product.
You've used the product. See, like, I think this is a big problem with a lot of good products. Retention is great, but how do you increase the funnel? Yeah. Right.
Because like, regardless of how good your attention is, there's going to be some drop off. So how are you reaching newer and newer people? And what is the efficacy of that reach? Right?
Like, I get it. This is not going to be a product for everyone because this is not a product. Yeah. I think you're right about that. I mean, it's something that we've talked about with the steel I've been working
on for Tomboy X that yes, you know, we have a core market, which is queer women, but both we need to be able to double down on that, on that market. So give them more products to buy and help them understand where they can, where they can engage with the brand in more ways. Right.
And for us, that's meant like rolling out a T-shirt program and stuff that's going to be really targeted at the core audience, but then also having a story for adjacent audiences, right? So like, what about sporty women or people who might be interested in our kind of underwear, but maybe are not part of that kind of core, core base.
Having those products is also just really helpful, but also having the story for them. You know, like the story needs to be the story is what brings them in. Like you're saying, I think the quality is what retains them, but the story is what brings them in and helps them see this is right for me. Also like another thing, a very easy, small test that I often find for messaging.
Can I think of somebody in my life who would want this? Or can I think of a kind of person who would want this? And I can't. Like, would I recommend this to anyone? I don't know who to recommend it to.
Even though you've told me that it's a really nice product and it's really light on your skin, the best oil that you have. I don't know who to recommend it to. All good product stories. I know who I should recommend it.
Even for let's say Tom Boy X, I have never used their products. Right. But like, I know it's like a queer run brand and, you know, you can get products which are for all bodies and there is a story there. Like I haven't bought their underwear.
I don't know the quality. I've only seen them online, but I can tell that like, oh, here is how I would talk about it because you really want your story to be simplified enough that people who don't know anything about the technicalities of your product can still speak about it. Yeah.
That's interesting. Yeah. The size diversity is such a thing that's easy to tell about Tom Boy, right? Let me go from like triple extra small all the way to XL, you know, and it just means that like almost any person can find a shape that fits them.
And I think that that's so easy to talk about even when you haven't even owned the product, like you're saying. Yeah. Especially like, especially because any of these like consumable products, you do want people to talk about it because let's say that, you know, I have a bottle out there.
If somebody asks, so how is this cream? You should have somebody who says a really strong emotional story behind it. And that story is not going to be what it's 99% natural. Like that's not going to be the story, regardless of how amazing that fact as a scientific achievement is.
Yeah. No, it'll be what I told you, right? Like it was the lightest thing I had touched and that is like made me feel so happy about it. And that is there.
It's just not as center, right? I think that's. See in the bottom of the second to the left column, right? They're saying that there's this. The next lighter to X faster.
Okay. Let's go on. We have a lot of slides. Let's do it. Okay.
So we're talking about. Now we are like basically going into the central philosophy. I was just one of the columns. No, I thought maybe we were going down one of the, all the five columns. Anyway, okay.
No. Okay. How did we choose ingredients? None of these ingredients mean anything to me. I mean, damrend seed maybe means something.
That's true. I guess I kind of know what a mulberry is. Um, also, I think that's not the root. That's the mulberry itself, but. Yeah.
No, I'm sure. And I know what sunflower is. I guess. And the other seed, a seeder would also, I guess. Both of these slides, I would just ask the question of like, what am I supposed to
take away? Right? Like if I'm, I think these are about establishing trust, right? So maybe like, how are we can be established trust at different levels? So some is the presentation.
Some is the way that you're, you're the language, but then also you can give more data to kind of establish trust. And maybe that would mean like talking about what you're using them for. Or like, why are you ready to write? Like for people who are not as familiar on this previous slide.
Okay. I really like the product branding. Yeah. Like this looks lovely. It's somehow really accessible and not overwhelming.
Like my other facial products feel a lot more overwhelming and this just doesn't. Like it's like, Oh yeah, I can just pump it a little bit. Even though I never used like a dropper before for my oil, I'm like, Oh, I can figure this out. You know, it just was not scary.
Yeah. Yeah. It seems very simple, clean. And it feels like it has its own visual language. It doesn't look like other things on the market.
I mean, sure there will be like some commonalities here and there, but like, I can tell that it's a premium product just by looking at it. But at the same time, like not really, I don't feel like, Oh, it's an inaccessible product, which is so hard to do. It's like, yeah, again, it's so interesting.
They're branding and packaging is so on point. So I'm just surprised by the gap in communication. Yeah. It's interesting that the two slides that have really stopped us have been the visuals, you know, the ones that like have been this slide and the other one.
And it hasn't been the content so much yet. It's been like having a couple of really compelling visuals on these slides that have been really effective. Yeah. Okay.
We see that the team is doing research. This is not like, I don't feel this is a bad slide, interestingly. Like some of the previous slides I've been like, really, like, do you really need this? This seems okay. Right.
Like it's kind of cool to see that you guys have a real research team. I don't feel like these are possibly stock images. Like somehow these really definitely feel like your research team. I also feel like, uh, Could be the product in the image.
Yeah, go ahead. The product could be in the image, but I also just generally feel like this feels honest. Hmm. Like this is probably the most apart from Ravi's slide.
This feels the most trust to building slide till now. And honestly, this feels trust building without even knowing who they are. With the previous slide about Ravi, I think you have to have some sense of who he was for that to be trust building. Cause it didn't really establish him.
It assumed that you understood who he was in the industry. Yeah. Which is fair. I mean, honestly, he's like done, he's been in the industry for so long, but yeah, I just think it's interesting that this slide is managing to establish
that trust without having to like label the people. Hmm. Okay. I see. Okay.
Cool. Yeah. So this I feel like I'm actually glad that they have this because they have, they have mentioned that multiple times. So this gives me an idea of like, you know, what is it and why is it special?
And it feels like the right level of detail for it. Right. Like it's talking about, you know, the, it's talking about some things that it does at a layer that feels understandable. Right.
Like I could maybe remember it as hydration. I definitely would remember it's 10 X lighter than other oils, you know, and you've told me that a couple of times already. And then I like that it's a blend of seven oils. Like, you know, that kind of stuff is also understandable.
Memorable. She's using it, right? It's not like, oh, we do voodoo. You know, like we have a way that we're actually getting this product to work. Okay.
This is a very cool. I'm into this side. Do we want to say anything about the graphic here? It's fine. Like, I don't think it's fine.
But yeah. Yeah. First time I liked the content. First time I like the content. Maybe second time.
But yeah. Okay. What's happening here? You're explaining to us what CMOS means. I think cosmos cosmos.
So let me see the next one. Okay. Here. I can, it's still about the same thing. Do you want to see the next one?
If you're ready, I can go. Yeah. Maybe we can move on. Cold standard. Okay.
So this is what I understood from Ravi when I. Is that going to come up? No. No. When we spoke in person that what this also means is that the
products in there are all in a seed bank. So the plants being used could never go extinct because they are stored in a seed bank. And I feel like that was really compelling and I remembered it well enough to tell you right now.
And I don't feel like that is so much clear here. Feel like honestly. So these slides, the previous two, this one, they don't feel emotionally misplaced because whatever I trusted or didn't trust the brand. Like I'm just for, I'm just seeing what your science is and I get it.
Maybe I don't know what is green chemistry. Maybe I don't know what is like what use of stem cell have you done in the formulation, but I'm like, okay, yeah, sure. You guys have done something. It seems like you have patents, you have certifications.
Seems fine. Yeah. Like this, this just feels like proof of work kind of slides. Like I'll probably gloss over them. I wouldn't really read them.
I'd be like, huh, yeah, they have something that kind of thing. I think you're right. This one, I wonder if it could be somehow better. Like for some reason it doesn't give the same feelings as the previous science slide. Because the visual language changed.
They put two desaturated images. They shouldn't have done that. This one is also desu... They just kept the saturation in the people. Yeah, correct.
And even there like... Very curious choice. Yeah. Maybe they're just, they were visually very bright, but you see even here they kept the red. How interesting.
This is a questionable choice. I think I would rethink these images. Yeah. All right. So this kind of jump makes me really wish I had had some sort of...
...understanding. ...contextual grounding. You know, like just contextual ground. Like whether it meant that you're putting chapter slides in the middle or you're giving me some sort of like table of contents or something.
Wow. Okay. Here we are. That's fine. But I just, I didn't expect this.
This is kind of cool. I don't know if this is a typical thing with skincare brands. I don't like the... Visual organization of things here. Why is yoga therapy like in a second line misplaced that Al Mora is not aligned?
Like I don't like that at all. And it's unfortunate because what looks so classy and nice before kind of looks plastic-y. Right? Yeah. These Al Mora, Guasha things.
They'll definitely be stone. So that's even sadder because I'm sure there's Guasha is generally a stone. Yeah. So like it's even sadder that they have... Honestly, I would have also like made the map bigger or something.
Yeah. This doesn't actually do anything. I think having this as the main image would have been really nice. And then maybe like doing a much better quality picture of the stone. Who cares if they're branded, frankly, right?
Like I don't think you need to highlight the branding as much as you need like a really beautiful photo of those stones. Like on top of something or... I would also imagine that like you have, they have already established that this green is their green.
Yeah. Like I already get it that like this is their color. So I don't even know if they needed this. And something you and I have just talked about is like how many times do we need to say the name of the company when we're deep into a deck?
And it's like here we're saying the name of the company four different times on this page, which is fine, right? But it just makes you wonder, is there a better use of that space? Right? Like could we be conveying more information or maybe just spreading out content a little
bit more? Because these are different ideas, you know, enhancing blood flow, providing essential nutrients, skin rigidity. These are all just different ideas. Yeah.
And just helping us understand where they sit would be nice, I think. I also think that like there is a temptation oftentimes to sort of like try to do a lot and try to say a lot because we think that like convincing or trust building happens because of information, but it often doesn't. Yeah.
Right? Like so, for example, boost skin cell regeneration, lifting, toning, sculpting and delaying formation of spots and wrinkles. It's fine. But like if it said something on the other hand, which is like, what does it feel like
to have this to like more youthful skin, supple skin or something like that? Like what is the word that you want to be using here that gives me a sense of the after state? Like it's a very information dense deck. Yeah.
We are only halfway through. We're not even halfway through. Let's keep going. Okay. What is the Nagoya protocol?
I saw that earlier somewhere, but we didn't explain it. Oh, guardians of genetic resources. We see. Okay. Okay.
Something. Something. Yeah. Okay. So now this is sorry, just before we go on.
So this is just because we've been talking about manufacturing. We briefly talked about the yoga and then we went back to talking about manufacturing just so I'm the impact, not manufacturing necessarily. I would have actually like pushed the impact slide before the yoga slide. Yeah.
Yeah. For sure. That's what I was getting at. I feel like that is more, this is more closely tied to these than it is tied to the yoga slide.
The yoga slide now just feels very random. Yeah. Anyway. Okay. Okay.
This is a competitor analysis. Yeah. I see. So you're telling us we have the advanced science of Lamar, but we have the naturalness of some of these brands.
I see. Okay. Okay. Cool. It helps one place.
Wow. Which is also this is in detail. What is the difference between a V and an X? V is check, maybe. Oh, but then this one is green without being a V.
Yeah. And that seems like a little bit of an error because if you just see Al Mora, but Anika has all checks. These. Yeah.
Okay. Well, maybe you're right. It's literally meant to be a check. Like it's just because it should be kind of looks like a check. Oh, I see.
This. Okay. So now we're getting into the products. Okay. I get this.
Like the product looks good. Looks classy. There's two different visual identities, which is nice. And they're very clear that they belong with each other. They reinforce while still standing out.
Yeah. Prevent and preserve, restore and repair. Like both. It's very clear that there is two stories, two product stories here. Yeah.
And it's also this language helps me understand who they're for, right? So this is more for when, before you have issues and this is like when you have stuff that you're trying to address. Yeah. And even like the prevent and preserve, restore and repair thing also does that
right? Like, you know, oh, maybe prevent and preserve is something you're trying to give to somebody in their twenties and restore and repair is somebody like, you know, products for somebody in their thirties or maybe forties, something like that.
Okay. Okay. So we're now diving into certain products. Yeah. Flagship products for cleansing.
This one's one awards. And now we're finding out what the. The key. What those. Yeah.
Yeah. Okay. I like this. While these are not like if I trust the brand or if I'm interest, like if I have retained interest until this slide, then these slides are good.
Yeah. Okay. I mean, even if I was not that like I'd lost interest at some point, I'm kind of curious about these slides, right? Like these are, I'm like, oh, this is interesting.
Okay. Okay. Yeah. You know, my desire for symmetry is slightly annoyed, but it's okay. Because they're pretty symmetric.
They mean, what are you going to do? You have different amounts of content. Okay. So now we're understanding where in the world they are. A lot of airlines.
A lot of airlines, which is very cool. Because I do think a lot of people try out products in airlines. Right. So I think getting into those airline. And this is like amazing because it's like China, Macau, Hong Kong, British, Vietnam,
Thai, Taiwan, Emirates, Singapore. I assume that both Starlux and Evi are also Chinese. I think so. Evi is, I think out of Hong Kong. I'm sorry, out of Taiwan.
Excuse me. But yeah. But yeah. Something, a pushback we have been getting. Um, let me just see if it's on the next slide.
They are kind of. Okay. One of the pushbacks we've gotten from slides like this on the Tomboy X-Tec is to just understand a little bit more details of the partnerships. But it seems like I think we're going to be going through each one.
Okay. This is cool. I mean, having a stand in here is pretty amazing. And also just like having a photo of it really puts it in context. Yeah.
And it looks so good. Yeah. Um, this is also cool. Okay. This photography is so much better.
Yeah. This is, so we're seeing it in the thing and we're also seeing someone having a, um, a treatment with their products. Why do you say this photography is so much better out of curiosity? Versus the Harrods one?
Just cause it's like lighting. Uh, so the lighting is a lot better. And if you just see it, like the product feels a lot more desirable. Really? If you compare it to this, like this is just like overblown light.
And it's just like, okay, it's, it's something. I'm just like, like if I just compare it to just the organization and the arrangement, like it just looks more interesting, at least to me. I could see that. Yeah.
Like this has less department store vibes and more upscale vibes. Yeah. That's what I was thinking. Like I feel like Harrods is a very traditional department store and you kind of can feel that in this, you know, like that they would do this kind of arrangement
and have the thing, right? Like I feel traditional department stores, they give you this feeling of plenty, you know, and I think now we've kind of gone to this feeling of like there's an idea that you need space also to like see the products and appreciate them. Okay.
Let's, let's also on their website. Wow. That is a big space to have. Malin, Singapore. Right.
And I guess it feels like we're being asked to kind of like look through these quickly. Right. It's not like we're being asked to do them in detail. Yeah. I wish I had known a little bit about any of those airline partnerships, but okay.
Maybe they have it afterwards. Okay. Like, you know, okay, this is the spa partnership. So we saw retail stores and now we are seeing spa partnerships. Makes sense.
Yeah. I think it's cool that they have someone that is an expert enough to be on this. I mean, I kind of feel like I just trust that she's an expert. I suppose I could look her up and see. Hmm.
Let's see. No, that's Victoria Beckham, not. Yeah. Goodness. Really?
Victoria? No. So at least she's not a big enough person that Siri immediately knows who she is, but whatever. Okay. Fine.
Okay. You were right. They are talking about what the airline partnerships is. So this is not in their business class. Like baggies.
This is sounds like it's for sale by Singapore. Okay. Okay. This seems like the next year's plan. But like, you know, this year or next year's plan.
Yeah. So basically they've launched in the UK. And in Singapore. 26, I think. Yeah.
Yeah. And they've launched in Singapore and now they're launching the US UAE, Qatar, Vietnam, India. Yeah. And then Europe, South America, Canada, Australia are coming. Okay.
Okay. Another little type of there. Okay. This is their PR. Yeah.
Again, a volume feeling versus like a specific anything standing out. Just a choice. Okay. I'm surprised that they wouldn't. I don't know.
I feel like Vogue is such a big one that you might like give a little bit more. Okay. And then this is whose social media. This is their social media. Which I feel is questionable for me.
What is this slide for? It's not like there is a lot of cool. I mean, like if they were showcasing what is the story on this? Yeah, I don't know. Like the, the latest in digital marketing is not paid search and advertising on
meta and Google. That is like the oldest in digital marketing, right? Like the latest in digital marketing is much more stuff like, like thinking about innovative influencer partnerships. It's like using the new product searches and like chat GPT or in TikTok.
Yeah. This feels like, oh, you guys know how to run some email campaigns kind of. And then I'm glad you have a nice social Instagram grid. And then I assume these are influencers, but because they're not articulated, it's not.
I think it might even if they wanted to say that like, you know, this is a brand of the, you know, what is interesting? I don't know who the audience is. We are almost 36. And that's it.
Right. Yeah. We're on page 36. Page 37 is new product launches and I have no idea who is your target audience. You're saying for the deck or you're saying for.
Like I just don't, I don't know both. And maybe it's weird. Uh, maybe that's a. It's just some artifact. Like there was something that somebody I think pasted or something that didn't,
I don't know. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, this is really petty and weird, but I find it so interesting that
like the names are uneven, but the women's names are below. Oh yeah, you're right. That is weird. Like, so I feel like a lot of the alignment and stuff is a bit unintentional in the deck.
I would feel like I feel questionably about it. But like core story wise, I feel like I don't understand who the products are targeting. Are they for young people? Are they for old people?
Are they for like rich people, poor people? I don't know. Like maybe the fact that like you're partnering with Harrods and all of that, that gives an idea that it is more upscale on this some place where you could see the price points here.
You can see the price point. So you're like, okay, you know, it's a hundred and thirty five dollar serum. It's not a cheap. Like, you know, product, but I don't know. I'm not particularly sure about like anything else.
I think here was the most kind of distinguishing we got about who the audience for these products were. Right. Like it felt like this was somewhat earlier and this was somewhat like kind of later, more mature skin.
I do agree, though, it's more of the strategy of we're going to present a lot of information and you're going to make a decision about who this is right for, if it's right for you. But I feel like soon as there's a concept of cognitive maps, sometimes information is not presented in a way that you can fit it in a cognitive map.
And that's what I feel here. Like there is a lot. Clearly they have substance. Clearly they have done their work. Clearly they have thought about a lot of different things.
But I just feel like there is a lack of earnestness, which is not there in their branding or in their opening or clearly in their product. Right. Like the product feels very genuinely thought through. Yeah.
Really interesting. I feel like it's really missing a snapshot of the consumer somewhere around here, right? And it's talking and that would just ground us in. Why do we care about these things?
Right. Like what is the consumer caring about when you're saying nature and science are intersecting and I don't even know what does this intersection look like? Because it's not like you're going to be the only product that this type of consumer you're describing is buying.
There's other products they're buying for their other needs. Because you're just doing skincare. Right. Like if this is the, if we're saying that this is an intersection that's occurring as a macro trend across the world, which is what it seems like the
contention is, then it's like, well, how, what other signs do we need? And maybe if Gua Sha is a key part of it, like maybe we're can use that as a little highlight, right? Like Gua Sha usages have been rising, interest in Ayurveda has been rising among these kinds of groups.
And those are the people we're appealing to, the ones who are going to wellness retreats, the ones who are traveling to these stores. And I think that like a more holistic understanding of what does it mean for somebody to care about nature or Ayurveda? Right.
Like they casually mentioned rooted in yoga somewhere. What does that mean for something to be rooted in yoga? Is what I get it. I get it.
But like that's not what most people would think. I get it on the best influence by yoga. I get it for the best case interpretation, but most of the times your user or like a potential customer is not going to do best case interpretation. So that's how I don't know.
That's how I feel about it. Like this is probably the informationally most cohesive deck we have yet. We can't really fault them on the information apart from the customer thing. Like clarity of narrative thread is missing, at least for me. Yeah.
Yeah. It's an interesting point you said about like the branding being there, but this kind of this next level down from it, like the communication feeling not quite as put together. Yeah.
It's an interesting deck. I think I feel like, like you're saying, like I think the components are there, but we need to stitch together the narrative a little more. And to me, I think the narrative flows either from the consumer. Or the story of like the brand and the product more, right?
Like how did we decide to make this? What, what was the kind of personal story that led us into these choices? But some story to kind of like just give a humanizing element of like why these components and then I think also I would think a little bit about like, what's the product that people buy first?
Do they jump in headfirst into the whole line or is there kind of a product that we expect them to buy first? Like a hero product, if you will. And then that's the one that people take, you know, then they go forward and are introduced to the rest of the line.
And actually even some more of that information, like some customer interaction kind of stuff, like how are people receiving your product? Because it's great to see like that could be another or rather that could be another angle from which you could show customer understanding. So you might not have personas and you might not have, oh, here is Rashmi,
she is 36 years old and she has two children and blah, blah, blah. Like you might not want to say it like that, but you can say it from like, you know, oh, these are the kind of products that appeal to this age. Our products are gifted to people or our products are like, you know, pick them up like this or this is our hero line from first set.
This is our hero line from second set, stuff like that. That would be quite interesting. Yeah. Like one way I've seen some people present information like that is that you would have like, like maybe like a consumer and then you would show that they
have different facets. So maybe you would have like two or three different consumers. So one is like an 18 to 35 year old woman. Fra with certain characteristics and you kind of like, you know, sketch out a couple of different and then you show that for, for her morning
activities or for her cleansing or for her moisturizing or for her, you know, facial concerns, like how you today you have products for part of the spectrum of what she would require. And then in the future, you're going to roll out products for more, but you're kind of showing how there's a set of needs that are consistent across different
demographics. And today that we, we have products that support these needs for these groups, but we're going to expand to other groups with, for their similar needs. And we're going to expand the set of needs that we support for our core groups as well.
But I can also give some grounding for these kinds of new products. Yeah, like I do not get the treatments for perimenopause and menopause. Like I don't know why that is there. Like I get cleansing and hydration and sun protection. Those feel natural.
But this is a, this is an aspirational new category. Nobody creates things for menopausal and perimenopausal women. So if you're creating it, there has to be a really strong, like story behind it. I'm sure that you have done like, you know, research and you have an understanding of why these are specific things.
Yeah. Right. And it's also interesting. I didn't kind of miss this, but this and this. Well, so these are as branching into body products.
And then this is a hair product. So there's quite a lot of expansion being detailed in this that wasn't like from a consumer's point of view, right? Like you're saying that a consumer was thinking about me for one thing today, and they're going to be thinking about me for much more things in the future.
I don't think consumers know it's not like, Oh, this is my cleansing brand for my face, my body and my hair. Right. It's much more like this is my facial brand. And then this is my hair brand.
And then this is my body. So I think that this structuring is not so consumer focused. And I think a more consumer focused structuring might be a little bit more effective. I also just, I honestly like hate hammering on that point, but like I really feel like it would be much nicer if they showed why they care about these things.
And why they care about these people. Like I don't get a sense of like, there's a lot of information, but like, you know, you don't get that emotional affect enough. Interesting. Well, this is one I feel like I'd love to take another look at if they do end up
making changes, because I'm just very curious about how this product evolves. And the story evolves really. Like I think the product is very solid. Yeah. 100%.
Like I feel like, yeah, I feel both fortunate and a little bit like we have come across a lot of people who have excellent product, but they could really like, you know, improve their communication. You know, maybe we should think about taking one of them because, you know, one of the things we do do is storytelling.
And I wonder if maybe something we could think about in a future episode is thinking about how we would retell the story of some of these. We could talk to the person. I don't really want to, you know, it's very sweet that people share with us their things.
I don't know if we want to set them up like that, but it could be an interesting idea. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think I would really love that too. Awesome.
This was fun though. Bye. Yeah. Bye.